2019 Phillies Season Discussion

[zambonir]

Sounds like they might make VV the starter Friday (and going forward) and go with a bullpen or a call-up (or just Irvin?) tomorrow. If Hunter is back and Morgan's not far behind they probably don't need VV in the pen as much. He went to the pen because it was the area of greatest need and now a starter is.

It'd be nice to see what De Los Santos has though. I guess we're never going to see Anderson, hard to believe he looked like the 6th or 7th best guy in spring training.

[Philsmania]

Would a Velasquez back to the rotation move be more of a move of necessity or an admission that the switch to the bullpen hasn't really worked?

[schooldoc]

I agree with AF that it's time to give EDLS a 3-4 start audition as the 5th starter before they go ahead and make a move, if need be. To me, it doesn't seem like the Phils know exactly what EDLS is...middle reliever, setup man, starter. But I know what he isn't which is a soft tosser like Eick, Suarez or Irvin who need to be on point with their command or they're in trouble against good lineups. EDLS at least has a little margin for error sitting at 93-94 mph.

[HopeSpringsEternal]

Weather in Washington DC is going to be iffy again today (Tuesday) and tomorrow (Wednesday). Would not be surprised if one of these games is cancelled and made up later in the season. That could delay the need for a fifth starter until next week.

[andyb]

Would a Velasquez back to the rotation move be more of a move of necessity or an admission that the switch to the bullpen hasn't really worked?

I think it is a realization that VV is better than any other starter they currently have. The bullpen results have been uneven so far, but there have been enough good outings that I don't think they see it as a failure or something they have dismissed. VV is just better than Irvin and Anderson and De Los Santos at the moment. Frankly EDLS's stuff might be better suited to a bullpen role than Velazquez who has better secondary pitches. Surprised they have not really tried that yet.

[zambonir]

I don't think it's really possible to say the switch to the bullpen hasn't worked. He'd need to pitch at least 20 times, if not 40. Now, maybe this team doesn't have that luxury - and didn't by elevating him in the bullpen pecking order so quickly. He hasn't even been given a grace period to adjust, and has been used in so many different ways (which I think is a fine way to run a bullpen but a bigger learning curve for someone who has never been a relief pitcher).

In some ways converting to a closer is probably the easiest move, you never enter with men on base (traditionally) you know exactly when you're going to pitch and what your margin for error is.

But yes, also, VV is clearly our 5th-best starter now, and he's probably better than Eickhoff unless he is really able to show his struggles were related to injury (again).

Has De Los Santos actually shown anything this year in AAA to suggest he's significantly more advanced than last year? I still think his future is either a trade or the bullpen.

One thing about those two Braves games is it probably reduces the likelihood of openers or tandem starts as a regular option post trade deadline. It certainly worked for the Brewers but we don't have their offense (or Hader). And we can spend more than the Rays.

[Lawman]

Has De Los Santos actually shown anything this year in AAA to suggest he's significantly more advanced than last year? I still think his future is either a trade or the bullpen.

In a must win game, would you rather start DLS or VV?

[julio]

Has De Los Santos actually shown anything this year in AAA to suggest he's significantly more advanced than last year? I still think his future is either a trade or the bullpen.

In a must win game, would you rather start DLS or VV?

It's June. These are not "must win" games. The last thing you want is for Kapler to start managing like it's the seventh game of the World Series - because that's a formula for "win tonight, at the expense of every game for the next week."

[Lawman]

I fully understand and appreciate that fact. But, there will be must wins later on in the season. And, it is entirely within the realm of possibilities that the 5th starter will be called on in one of those games. So, of the 2, which one would you rather see starting?

[julio]

I fully understand and appreciate that fact. But, there will be must wins later on in the season. And, it is entirely within the realm of possibilities that the 5th starter will be called on in one of those games. So, of the 2, which one would you rather see starting?

I don't know. We haven't seen enough of De Los Santos, IMHO, to answer that question. We also don't know how important Velasquez may be in the bullpen, if he's there for the balance of the season.

Based on what data we have, Velasquez would be a crapshoot starting an important game. He might be "on," and very good until his pitch count got high (which would in about the fifth inning, given that he's almost never been able to control his pitch count). Or he might be dreadful.

De Los Santos? Haven't seen enough to have a clear opinion. If he's brought up to go in the rotation, that may be the purpose - so they can find out about him. Yeah, I know that's sub-optimal if they're trying to contend; it would be nice if these kind of questions had been answered in the past. But they haven't been.

[andyb]

All this talk about VV versus EDLS and we have not even come to realize that someone needs to start Saturday also.

Unless we are going to start Jake on 3 days rest on Saturday, we need both a 5th starter and a 6th starter this week.

[zambonir]

If it was tomorrow definitely Velasquez. He has had legit, if intermittent, stretches of dominance. Haven't seen anything in DLS's MLB appearances like that.

[California_Dreamin]

I am seeing a lot of consternation from Phillies phans about their seeming indifference to signing Keuchel and I sure get it. But then I ask myself this.."if I was a pitcher and I had several choices of teams to sign with, given what Kapler has been doing to this pitching staff, would I sign with the Phillies? No way.'

It is my opinion that someday, possibly soon, a few of the Phillies pitchers, who can't really talk now, are going to let the baseball world know of their utter disdain for the way Gapler has used [abused] them. Many are in precarious spots now and are uninclined to talk but it will happen.

These are not robots, they are human beings and to believe you will get the best from them when the manager [and organization] have a "now you see him, now you don't" attitude about almost the entire bullpen crew is to have been weened on Stratomatic Baseball, where players are nothing more than names on a sheet of paper, oblivious to the whims of the guy reading the cards.

By my count, Kapler and Crew have likely damaged the arms or psyches of at least 10 hurlers this year and there will be a price to pay. If I were to guess, it will be Arrieta or Nola who eventually speaks out and it won't paint Kapler and his Mad Scientist Philosophy in a good light.

[LoneStarPhan]

Bullpen may take another hit. I guess we will find out more tomorrow.

Phillies Likely To Place Pat Neshek On Injured List

[Philly_s_Best]

A great point and I was wondering exactly when people will start loudly calling for Kapler's head for this or just to make a change and go in a different direction?

[fish]

A great point and I was wondering exactly when people will start loudly calling for Kapler's head for this or just to make a change and go in a different direction?

I still like Kapler. For me, I look at this team and have no answer to the question "what are their strengths?". Isn't that a reflection of the GM? I think Klentak has things moving in the right direction, but the organization seems to be missing something to get it over the hump- and as we've seen, adding good players hasn't been getting a different result. Isn't it something else then? After 4 years, Klentak has got to start to figure out how to (correctly) diagnose problems and change things faster. It still feels like a long drawn-out science experiment of without cheating and incorporating what other successful teams are doing.

If they are under .500 at the all star break, don't heads start to roll? I don't imagine it would be Klentak or Kapler yet, but Middleton can't let that stand as-is, can he?

[zambonir]

I could see Kapler going if it gets really bad. Firing a few coaches doesn't really appease or help. And managers just don't get three years anymore.

Klentak's not going anywhere, he gets to hire one more manager and he and MacPhail and Middleton are in this thing together.

But as I said in another thread I think Kapler has actually done a good job. I think what he's gotten out of the bullpen has actually been good (the record, and the injuries, do not lie). And I don't think the manager can really make Bryce Harper hot, or Aaron Nola as good as he was last year. They also signed two of the most durable early 30-something players they could, and lost both of them

Before Herrera's arrest and Cutch's injury I thought a fixed bullpen and one starter would keep things going in the right direction - which they already were, i.e. the team was in first place all season, and was on pace to win 91 games as recently as a week ago. That's a good result, and another 10-game improvement over last year. If they repeat last year, collapse, and finish below .500 again, then of course things change.

But there's no reason to assume what we've seen in the past few weeks is a permanent trend. They've taken some hits on some tough road trips but have also still won plenty of games. If they go in the tank for the rest of June then they will be trouble. There's certainly an argument to be made for improving the team before the next Braves series, especially now that Neshek is gone again and there's still no sign of Robertson.

I think Klentak's biggest mistake was probably having all those older bullpen arms (Nicasio being the least-needed, though healthiest, of them). Arguably he also has too many prospects on the 40, if you're going to have a team that uses the entire 40. People keep complaining about Irvin and Suarez and Garcia or just using AAA starters as relievers in general but there is no one else on the roster. They have little choice but to trade guys off the 40 at the deadline, just to open up the space for the acquisitions.

[andyb]

The quest for OBP at the top of the lineup continues. Harper and Hoskins 1-2 tonight followed by Bruce.

[Austinfan]

ITYS on Harper, that one big year was an anomaly, he's the player he's been since that year.
Right now his Ks are too high, but otherwise pretty much on target.
The bright side is staying in RF has improved his defense, and he's athletic enough to maintain it.
He wasn't going to carry a team, and $26M a year reflects that.

He's got the motivation to keep on working on his hit tool and may figure out over the next few years - probably by shortening his swing and sacrificing those highlight HRs for more consistent contact.

The key is for Klentak not to panic, Bohm could be up by next year (I expect him in Reading by July), Quinn/Haseley in CF, Bruce/Cutch in LF, Cutch in CF, Kingery at 2B - that could be a heck of a lineup and a deep bench.

So cycle through the young pitchers, see who is a keeper, dump a lot of the veteran RPs, and understand this is the 2004-2006 Phillies, not the 2008-11 version. This time, keep Abreu.

[andyb]

Listening to Gelb's podcast on the Athletic now and one of the things he is most surprised about is the lack of power in this lineup. Basically everybody else in baseball is hitting HRs and the Phillies are not.

It begs the question as to whether this is a hitting approach problem. Kingery and Bruce might be the only players who are exceeding expectations given the way the ball is carrying this year.