2018-19 Phillies Off-Season News/Notes/Discussion

[fish]

To sign either of these guys the Phillies are going to have to accept some very difficult terms to swallow. We know a contract is going to have to be long, come with opt-outs, and get super creative. It's entirely reasonable for someone to be reluctant to tie themselves to the Phillies situation and the potential for things to get ugly fast if it doesn't go well. The Phillies biggest win will probably be to get the first opt-out included after 3 years rather than 2. I think it's going to have to come with a sizeable signing bonus so that if they decide to walk, they are walking away with the same value as if they had signed a high dollar short term deal.

All that said, it's still not an awful deal for the Phillies, unless either are so awful or injured they couldn't hope to sign another deal like what's left on the Phillies contract, they get off without being tied down long term if they don't want to be.

[Philsmania]

Neither Machado or Harper is worth the money they are seeking. And the downside of having $300 million tied up in a single player who is injured, or sullen, or who won't hustle, or who ends up resenting the Philly phanbase, is not to be discounted.

I will not shed a tear if they sign elsewhere. The moves we have made so far make sense. I'd explore signing Pollack, perhaps to a two-year deal at a high AAV, looking ahead to 2020 and the possibility of landing Trout. But even without another big signing, I am content to begin the season and watch our young players who WANT to be in Philly.

Sometimes I feel this way too, particularly that the Phillies will need to buy them out of their preferences for other locales (Machado for Yankee Stadium, Harper for LA or Chicago). They'll get their money here but will their hearts be elsewhere while they count down the days until they can opt out and go to where they really want to (the aforementioned locations)? Worst case scenario is that we end up with another Scott Rolen on our hands, a miserable star player constantly sniping with both management and the fans and longing for the day he's out of here.

[zambonir]

We're just such a traumatized fan base. And Rolen wasn't even a free agent!

[allentown]

The Phillies turf was destroying Rolen's back, but that particular, pathetic group of media and fans who turned on Rolen, Abreu, and Schilling should be ashamed of themselves. Those who idolized the fraud and decidedly amoral scoundrel who was Pete Rose at the time he came to Philly, should also hang their heads in shame.

[EDmuch]

For the love of Roy Smalley, can people please get over the past and making themselves miserable how no one wants to play here. I am amazed we don’t have more fans biting into cyanide capsules.

[flyers19rw]

This thing with Harper and Machado dragging on sort of irritates me as a phan. I suppose that it's a lot of posturing. However both of these players would get stung financially if the Phillies let it be known that they were out on these guys and were moving on to alternatives before that market dried up. It looks like these two FAs would rather play elsewhere and are using the Phillies money to bargain in order to get more out of the Dodgers or Yankees.
Just wonder how things would settle in phandom if the Phillies decided to pass on Machado and Harper going instead with signing Moustakas, A.J. Pollack, Grandal, Gio and Britton while making a trade to bring in Bauer or Kluber. Signing these guys instead could help put the pieces together to get a good SP as Franco, Williams, Quinn, etc are displaced.

[Austinfan]

It's easy to say sign someone, but last time I check, free agents get to choose.

[andyb]

It is easy to complain about stuff too without suggesting something better.

[schooldoc]

FWIW

Dan Clark (DanClarkSports)

[Patchmk88]

Extremely disappointing if true looks like we are going to keep kicking the can and extend our playoff drought for the foreseeable future. Klentak should be gone at the end of next year. He hasn’t done anything to improve the farm, has overseen some bad drafts, and has done very little to make the big league club better.

[LoneStarPhan]

I have really mixed feelings on this off season. On one hand, they Phillies need to add a big bat and Machado and Harper fit that requirement. On the other hand, if a player doesn't want to play in Philadelphia, signing him to a long term, big dollar contract could become a problem very quickly. Of course, we don't really know more than what we read and much of that might not be all that accurate. Regardless, I can't wait for spring training to start, regardless of who the Phillies end up bringing to camp. It just seems like this off season is dragging on far too long.

[mdougherty12]

Phillies reportedly at an impasse with Dallas Keuchel, unwilling to give him 5 year deal:

https://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/mlb-rumors-yankees-brewers-discuss-sonny-gray-trade-phillies-dallas-keuchel-at-impasse/amp/

[andyb]

I am kind of OK with not giving Keuchel a 5-year deal. Corbin was younger and better last year. Keuchel would be good on a deal like Arrieta's and since we have one deal like that already a second longer one should not be a priority.

I think we still look seriously in the trade market for a LHP. Maybe Ray.

[zambonir]

It will be a blow if they don't get either player but it's hardly the end of the season. They still improved by a large number of wins last season and may again. I know every other team in the Philadelphia has fired its GM (twice in the Sixers case) and one of them won the Super Bowl but I don't think it would be good for the team to change course.

And of course, as far as we know, ownership and the team president and Klentak are all on the same page, much as we'd like to believe Middleton thinks more like a fan. If in fact Manny signs with the Yankees and the Phillies didn't offer him the moon that decision was made by everyone, not just the GM.

Anyway, I've never heard of Dan Clark, so que sera sera for now. I also think that if the Phillies really did take their best shot at Machado and lose, they actually can and should be the high bidder for Harper, and Boras will know it.

Funny, someone on the old PHILS listserv said he didn't think much of Harper and compared to him Ryan Howard. If we could get Ryan Howard-like age 26-31 seasons for Harper (and with better defense and more positionial value to boot) I'm in.

I agree about Keuchel, even four is probably too much (guaranteed at least).

[phillychuck]

I'm really scared by the line of thinking that they improved last year so they might again. A very large percentage of teams that improve substantially decline the following year due to regression to the mean. The way to avoid this is to actually improve the available talent, which they've started to do, but the process is nowhere near complete.

I think Machado would put them close, and signing 3 or 4 better players than they have been running out there might be another way to go about it, but they really have to do one or the other to keep improving, at least I think so. Segura and McCutchen are a good start, but they need to keep getting better talent-wise. All the young guys are NOT going to take simultaneous steps forward.

[dcsman]

I honestly don't know what I want anymore. My mind has changed all offseason depending on which way the wind blows. More than anything I think, I just want the Macharper saga to be over with.

If we can get Ray or Bauer, let's do it!

[bigegypt0417]

Just as an FYI...this guy has tried to sell himself as an insider but he really isn't.

One writer says Manny Machado is set to join Yankees, though no one else has...

[Earl_U]

Thought I read that this all stems from an Eskin report from a couple of months back where he claims no big free agent will sign in Philly as long as Kapler is the manager.

[zambonir]

I'm simply disputing the notion that Klentak hasn't made the big club better (especially since it's only Year 2 of any active effort to do so). The four free agents he signed last year improved the team. Even the thing we now see as a mistake (Santana) improved the team (and fetched a very solid trade return). This year's moves so far have improved the talent base. That players might regress and, they need more talent: both true. If the 2019 team is not a legit playoff contender I'd say he's on the clock but I wouldn't say he should be fired (would that big a course correction really make things better for 2020?).

Oh, also I think he hired a good manager (some will disagree!) and while the jury is still out on the execution and value of the analytics, it sure did need doing.

But the big mistakes were both already made before last season - the ones Amaro and Gillick made, and, we can now say in hindsight, Klentak overestimating how much he was left with (including his misjudgment of Hoskins' ability to play LF), and the value of "seeing what we have." But there still wasn't really any way to speed that up without committing resources (salary and giving up guys in trade).

And yes, I don't buy the "report."

[tom81]

Who really knows what is on Harper &Machado’s mind. Good to see some people having fun with it:

‘Bryce Harper’ restaurant prank has one Yankees fan very excited