2018-19 Phillies Off-Season Discussion (2019 version)

[andyb]

It is probably Trout's personality that makes him harder to trade. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar got traded. Wayne Gretzky got traded. All Trout would need to do to be traded would be to demand one. In that sense it might actually be better for him to sign an extension and then a trade could be more palatable to Angels fans if they know they can't compete while paying that $50 million annual salary.

I do think he'll sign an extension. More because Trout is a loyal guy who would not want to upset anybody. Then he probably comes to Philly when he is 32 or 33 and the salary is too much for whatever stage the Angels are in. Of course they (the Angels) are now looking at a new Long Beach stadium so it is possible that an LA-based club would not have salary issues after that increased revenue source comes online.

[Lawman]

Foles just became a free agent, as the Eagles aren't tagging him. He may be the only
FA that the Phillies could sign that would mitigate the sting of not signing Machado or Harper.

[Eisenreich]

Steve Phillips (StevePhillipsGM)

[Squire]

FWIW, Steve Phillips report is consistent with what I heard 3rd hand this morning.

Though this might just be the Phillies firing shots back at Boras through the press the way he does.

[Lawman]

Just goes to show us that this is why the draft and the development part of the game are so important. Draft and develop your own stars.

[gmwannabe]

yes, i echo Lawman's statement. looks like this is almost over and on other sites people are typing that the phils are going to get killed for this. i don't agree as i think middie was right there at the end. harper just wants to play elsewhere and that is the decision. i'd give one final take it or leave it (whatever they have offered) and be done. go with what they have. offensively they could be pretty good. defensively better. and pitching who knows. every team goes into the season with questions on pitching. was nola's season an anomaly. who knows. i'm expecting bigger results from pivetta. i think can be a top notch pitcher. eflin maybe too. i wouldn't kill the phils for this. who know's this non signing could be a blessing in disguise. Cozens for ROY???
gm

[andyb]

This is a huge organizational failure if they don't get it done. They need to do this because their homegrown prospects are not good enough. And they have the money to do it. When you do not utilize your payroll capacity you are leaving wins on the table.

Yes it is important to grow your own prospects. The Padres showed that it is equally important to supplement that if you have the cash. And if we pivot to Keuchel and Kimbrel we would spend almost as much money for less improvement than with Harper or Machado. And give up the same or more draft picks. We'd be looking at a team not quite good enough to win that traded their best 2 young players/prospects in Sanchez and Crawford.

[Patchmk88]

Agree 100% Andyb.

[Florida_Sunshine]

Andy,

If you looked at the new additions, it is surely not a huge organizational failure. The Phils offseason can’t rest on the whims of a player that doesn’t want to come to Philly. This probably puts to rest the theory that money is all that matters.

Now we pivot to other ways to improve the team.

[Taudawg]

Has many turns has this process taken??? I think there's still a couple weeks worth of back and forth to go, and the Phillies are just as much in as anyone else. None of the "rumors" are believable at this point.

[fish]

The good part if he signs with the Giants is we won’t really have to waste effort cursing him- he’ll have signed himself into a situation that depress his numbers and he won’t sniff the playoffs for 3 years.

[jimbomill]

harper just wants to play elsewhere and that is the decision

I agree, we can't make him sign. I feel good about the Phils having tried to get him (and MM).

[bigegypt0417]

Giants now offering a long term contract...could be 10 years.

Unless the Phillies go more years and more money this pursuit may be coming to an end.

[LegoDoom]

Andy,

If you looked at the new additions, it is surely not a huge organizational failure. The Phils offseason can’t rest on the whims of a player that doesn’t want to come to Philly. This probably puts to rest the theory that money is all that matters.

Now we pivot to other ways to improve the team.

I like the moves that the Phils made this offseason, but without a bigger move, then I think they depleted the top end of their system in order to maybe make the playoffs. How can the current system make a further push into the playoffs? They don't really have the ammo to make a big trade and aren't willing to overpay for a star player. While the offseason has had moves that I very much agree with, it also seems to bring in the question as to how the new organization can possibly contend for a WS. Without a few prospects turning the corner, then I'm not sure I see a viable path.

[andyb]

If you looked at the new additions, it is surely not a huge organizational failure. The Phils offseason can’t rest on the whims of a player that doesn’t want to come to Philly. This probably puts to rest the theory that money is all that matters.

Now we pivot to other ways to improve the team.

It is a failure though. We don't have any other easy ways to improve the team. We have already traded many of our best young players and prospects. There are no other free agents that are both young and move the needle.

We did the easy stuff. McCutchen cost money. Robertson cost money. Segura cost Crawford. Moving Hoskins fixed a mistake from last year. What we lack is the middle of the lineup bat. That will be harder to get for just money alone if not impossible. It is easy to do stuff when you have money and prospects. Harder to do when the needle-moving moves that can be made for money alone disappear though.

[Florida_Sunshine]

Not that we should be on a witch hunt, please reserve judgement for a year from now. Klentak accomplished a lot this year.

Uh, isn’t Hoskins a middle of the lineup bat? He sure looks like he is trending to a big contract also.

[bigegypt0417]

I'm not sure it can be an organizational failure if the player doesn't want to sign here.

It's a very big disappointment but it wasn't a lack of effort.

[andyb]

Machado seems to have gone down largely because of money. One can say that the Phillies did not value Machado at $300 million, but then I would argue that if it is an organizational priority to sign one of these two players and you suddenly don't because you pulled your $300 million offer then it is the organization that failed to make the offer.

They have been pointing to this offseason for 5 years. They have traded lots of the future to win now. It is a failure if they fumble on the biggest part of that strategy.

And to FS - Rhys Hoskins is an 850 OPS bat. Harper was .889 but has had 2 seasons of 1000+. He is less than 6 months older as well. Hoskins is a middle of the lineup bat on a mediocre offensive team. Harper is a much better middle of the lineup bat and of course we would have both of them with Harper (or with Machado). Two is better than one.

[Jazzhead]

To call this a "failure" is ridiculous. The Phils made an astronomical offer to Harper - the biggest contract to any player, ever - and Harper's priorities are elsewhere. And we've hardly decimated our farm system by trading Sixto for the best catcher in baseball.

We've corrected the major issues that affected us last year - players out of position, poor defense - and added All Stars at catcher and shortstop. We've also improved the bullpen. Meanwhile, Harper's out of the division and (if he chooses Frisco) won't sniff the playoffs until I'm drawing a Social Security check.

I applaud the Phillies for going the extra mile, and for taking steps to fundamentally improve the club even without getting Harper or Machado. And with $300 million freed up, there's still more, a lot more, that can be done. Heck, we could add Adam Jones (or Carlos Gonzalez) next week as another middle of the lineup bat, to slide into the same outfield spot we've been saving for Harper. (Although personally, I think Franco will have a monster season hitting fifth or sixth).

[andyb]

Most people rank the Phillies as a below average farm system now, largely because of no top 50 prospects. It is no longer an organizational strength. And qualify that "best catcher in baseball" stuff a bit because Realmuto is a mediocre best catcher in baseball. He is a good catcher in a down time for catchers. Nowhere near what Posey was for instance. And we get him for 2 years. 2 years in which this team does not appear good enough to win.

That is an organizational failure. Free agents sign largely for money. We have lots of it. We claimed we wanted one of these free agents. We would have failed to get them if we don't sign Harper. We have traded organizational strength to win now on a team that does not appear good enough to win now.