2018-19 Phillies Off-Season Discussion (2019 version)

[allentown]

That's $25 mill/year. Pathetic if Phillies don't beat that.

[bigegypt0417]

That's $25 mill/year. Pathetic if Phillies don't beat that.

my feeling is Machado will wait out Harper...if the Phillies don't sign harper I would imagine they will blow that offer out of the water.

[bkox]

Jon Heyman (JonHeyman)

[zambonir]

If there was a prop bet in PA's new legal sportsbooks I'd take "after February 15." Heck we didn't sign Arrieta until March 11.

[EDmuch]

Ok, we are kind of in fantasy land now, but ........ if the Phils get both Manny and Harper, then Franco and Williams are available in a trade. Whisper Franco and Williams to Cleveland and they might glance at you.Add the names of Medina or Sixto and you probably get the Tribe's full attention and them looking straight at you. Then you add Hellesley. The you add Eflin. At that point, you would get Kluber because you would have met the Tribe's demand: outfielders plus young pitching prospects. So imagine we get both Harper and Manny, would you then part with Franco. Williams, Medina, Hallesley and Eflin to get Kluber? You add Kluber to the Phil's team with Manny and Harper and you are talking about a World series contender imho.

[bkox]

Mark Feinsand (Feinsand)

[tom81]

So imagine we get both Harper and Manny, would you then part with Franco. Williams, Medina, Hallesley and Eflin to get Kluber?

No way do I include Eflin in that deal, the others sure. This board is down on Eflin but he put up a 2.2 bWAR last year in his age 24 season, not far removed from surgery on both his knees. He is a potential #1 or #2 in the near future! Kluber will be in his age 33 season and he didn't even make the majors till his age 25 season.

[zambonir]

Sounds like Lozano doth protest too much, especialy considering that agents leak stuff too. But still an enjoyable verbal spanking to read.

That's too much for Kluber but there's something there. I certainly don't consider Eflin untouchable. Is he Happ or Worley? (And even if he is Happ it wasn't a bad trade at the time.)

[tom81]

Eflin isn’t untouchable and maybe him for Kluber without much else makes sense for both teams. If we get both Harper and Machado though I don’t see us taking on Kluber’s salary for Eflin’s.

[David_Criss]

Adding Kluber would mean 2 of Velasquez, Eickhoff, Eflin, Pivetta gets bounced from the rotation. Adding either of these two big names immediately gives the Phillies some real ammunition in trade talks. I hope in addition to Cleveland, they could use this ammo and talk with AZ about Greinke and the Giants about Bumgarner.

Keuchel and Gio are still out there, too if they truly want a lefty in the rotation.
Eflin and Pivetta both had a 1.30 WHIP while Velasquez had a 1.34. Pretty similar guys stat wise.

[EDmuch]

The Tribe will never trade a Cy Young Award winner even up for Zach Elfin. The Tribe price for Kubler has always been 2 outfielders plus young pitching talent.

[donaldorc]

The Tribe will never trade a Cy Young Award winner even up for Zach Elfin. The Tribe price for Kubler has always been 2 outfielders plus young pitching talent.

Williams, Altherr and Velásquez.

[EDmuch]

Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha !!! Donald, you are killing me. Funny, funny, funny. You do understand, don't you, that the Tribe IS NOT rebuilding. They are planning on winning the AL Central again and competing against the Red Sox, Yanks and Astros in the play offs. They are not "unloading" Kubler for chump change, such as an outfielder who could not earn a starting position on the team that finished third in the NL East.

[donaldorc]

Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha !!! Donald, you are killing me. Funny, funny, funny.

Glad to make you evening!

[xogfog]

More interesting to me is what it would take to get Robbie Ray from the Diamondbacks, who are rebuilding.

[Dirk41]

The White Sox not coming off their offer would seem to be based on the belief that the Phillies might prefer Harper. Our front office is obviously less leaky but their first offer to Machado probably wasn't much better. It's still a dance.

Gotta be someone with the agents leaking these offers. Seems like Machado wants to be a Yankee, they don't want to pay him, Phillies gave him the best offer, and he's stuck trying to play on side against the other.

The fact that he is even still considering the White Sox after that offer makes it seem like no one wants him. The fairness of economics of baseball aside, the fact that the Phillies could hypothetically get both Harper and Machado for the price of what it was assumed one would cost is beyond lucky. This isn't stupid spending like Middleton mentioned. It would be smart

[zambonir]

This it the market is all. Same thing happened to JD Martinez and Lorenzo Cain last year. These guys are worth a lot more than that but they might not be worth what everyone expected two-three years ago.

As of right now, he's not actually considering the White Sox. They will have to do better. If they don't and no one else does by March 1, different story.

[LoneStarPhan]

Interesting that Lozano would issue a statement that ends by saying he will not use the media to negotiate, yet clearly he is using the media to forward his negotiations for his client.

It does seem he is concerned by the rumors which seems to suggest that there is a good deal of truth to what was reported.

But until there are actual signings, who knows what is going to happen?

[Austinfan]

This is why you don't jump and sign players.
It's not just the AAV, it's the term.
McCutchen was overpaid by a slight anount (but Santana is gone) but he buys time for OF prospects to mature.
Signing Machado or Harper is a long-term commitment that will be hard to get out of, so teams are more reluctant, if they said they'd take a 5 year deal, you'd see offers in the $150-175M area.

The White Sox offer was insulting, even if you don't want to go long, on a 7 year deal, I'd have to think $200M would be closer to market value ($28+M a year or so, or 4 WAR a year average from age 27-33, you don't pay top dollar on long-term deals).

[fish]

Anyone else get the feeling that focus shifted to Harper because he showed a bit more enthusiasm than Machado did at the idea of playing in Philly? Sure, Machado is the better fit, but if you're courting a guy offering the biggest contract in franchise history, you'd want to see some love in return, to feel like there is a spark of interest. I don't get the impression that Machado left the PTB feeling it. That seems like something that would be a big turn-off to a guy like Middleton.