2018-19 Phillies Off-Season Discussion (2019 version)

[phillychuck]

WIP isn't always bad, just certain hosts get blind spots. I rarely listen to anyone anymore, but the 10:00AM hosts and 2:00 PM hosts don't seem all that bad. Angelo used to be funny, but his schtick has really gotten old (got old more than 10 years ago while I was still listening, and what I read and occasionally hear is awful) and he's more of an irritable old SOB now than a quirky, funny guy.

[zambonir]

WIP's no worse than its equivalent in NY, Boston, or, I assume, Chicago, and the tabloid newspapers are worse in those cities (or at least in NY and Boston). Easier to play in places like LA or Texas or St. Louis as far as that goes.

But also easy to tune that stuff out. Plus, in the Twitter age, everyone has to put up with the same sort of nonsense really.

Anyway, yes, the WIP part was a joke/hyperbole, clearly there are much more reasonable people on our very reasonable list who still have issues with some players. But if we're trying to find "character" warts on these particular free agents (I have even seen it suggested the '19 class is more appealing on that level) Harper can be picked apart just as easily as Machado (as someone pointed out here previously there were people who even took Papelbon's side in their dugout dust-up). Meanwhile, the stuff Machado has been criticized for is most reminiscent of Chase Utley (albeit more for his time in LA) and Rollins, in my book. Maybe Barry Bonds (pre-PEDs). So I'll take him.

[bkox]

The existence of WIP has to be one of the factors that free agents considering Philadelphia as a destination (in any sport) take into account.

Is Philly the only city with a station like this? I dont really follow sports radio or talk radio. Is WIP an outlier or are there others in NY, LA or other major media markets like them?

[phillychuck]

WFAN (NY) is just as bad depending on the hosts. I rarely get to listen in Cleveland anymore, but CLE talk radio was awful for a long time there.

[Philsmania]

WIP's no worse than its equivalent in NY, Boston, or, I assume, Chicago, and the tabloid newspapers are worse in those cities (or at least in NY and Boston).

The Daily News is downright genteel compared to NYC's tabloids.

Not sure if WIP is the problem or if it's just Eskin who remains the dark heart of that station and will until he and all his grudges and prejudices are six feet under.

[phillychuck]

Isn't Eskin barely on the air anymore?

[LoneStarPhan]

On the Manny front:

White Sox Have Made Eight-Year Offer To Manny Machado

[zambonir]

WIP is now run by Spike Eskin who is really nothing like his father. Truth be told it is hard to imagine the Phillies needing to market to that perceived segment of the fan base anymore, the blog-savvy younger set seems much more dominant as far as the media landscape. Heck, they even killed Wing Bowl! But, we just saw the basketball and the hockey team give in to impatience and more old-school thinking over the past few years, and certainly the newspapers still have a few crusty guys. We've already seen those articles, months ago, suggesting Harper was a better fit due to Manny's "hustle" comments. And Gabe didn't have much of a honeymoon (though a lot of that was his own doing).

And yes, the Philly Daily News is not too tough, and is also still a classic left-leaning working class tabloid for the most part. Philly doesn't have a NY Post equivalent. Also, I'm not sure sports talk radio was really a thing when Schmitty made his famous comment (but today it would be about Twitter).

[Dirk41]

We are getting both, aren't we??

[zambonir]

Whatever happened to the Harper video game release anyway (total BS for now I guess).

What about Manny Machado? What to make of White Sox reported offer

ESPN’s Jeff Passan reported late Sunday night that the White Sox have offered Machado an eight-year deal. Reading between the lines of what has been reported locally in Chicago and nationally, the offer would seem to be in the range of $240 million, which would be nearly four times richer than the largest contract in White Sox history. Such a deal would not exceed the total value of Giancarlo Stanton’s 13-year, $325 million contract, but it would be an average of $5 million more per year.

[allentown]

Stanton’s

What to make of it is: if true we should be able to sign Manny for $280 million.

[Philsmania]

WIP is now run by Spike Eskin who is really nothing like his father. Truth be told it is hard to imagine the Phillies needing to market to that perceived segment of the fan base anymore, the blog-savvy younger set seems much more dominant as far as the media landscape. Heck, they even killed Wing Bowl! But, we just saw the basketball and the hockey team give in to impatience and more old-school thinking over the past few years, and certainly the newspapers still have a few crusty guys. We've already seen those articles, months ago, suggesting Harper was a better fit due to Manny's "hustle" comments. And Gabe didn't have much of a honeymoon (though a lot of that was his own doing).

And yes, the Philly Daily News is not too tough, and is also still a classic left-leaning working class tabloid for the most part. Philly doesn't have a NY Post equivalent. Also, I'm not sure sports talk radio was really a thing when Schmitty made his famous comment (but today it would be about Twitter).

Yes, Gabe flubbed his hello at the opening press conference and has been struggling to win the respect of Phillies phandom ever since. But, the skids of his flubbing that hello were greased by Eskin who went on and on about nonsense such as coconut oil.

The Daily News is a rarity in terms of being a left-leaning tabloid. Most tabloids these days trend hard right and cater to the MAGA crowd (although the NY Daily News has some personal animus toward him, probably from him not being too good to them when he was just a NY real estate developer).

As for the Harper-Machado sweepstakes, my neck is starting to hurt with all twists and turns. When the weekend started, it looked like we were getting Machado and visiting Harper was just a part of the process. Now, all the reports are that we are the overwhelming favorites to sign Harper while the White Sox are going all out to sign Machado. I've been on roller coasters that have had a straighter ride.

I have to admit that losing out on Machado to the Yankees would be frustrating but understandable. Losing him to White Sox would be frustrating and somewhat inexplicable.

[kmc1019]

I really hope the Phillies' brass is swinging for the fences to sign both and not settling for one based on hope for Trout down the road.

When he goes on the market, Trout will be several years older than Machado or Harper, approaching a downward trajectory and his priority is likely to be joining a team with the best chance to win. I'm not sure the current Phillies roster plus one of Machado or Harper would be considered closest to a World Series in comparison to other deep pocket teams out there.

As the ancient proverb goes, a Harper-Machado combo in hand is worth more than something that may never happen.

[Austinfan]

I hope the Phillies' brass is playing this the way they played Arrieta last year, refuse to bid against yourself, offer good money but don't let excitement make you stupid.

If you could land both at the right price you could set the franchise up for a decade, a gross overpay could land you in a "Howard" situation where you can't afford a couple players who could put you over the top.

[fish]

Trout will be north of 30 and approaching a downward trajectory

He’ll be goin into his age 29 season, but I state that just because of how amazing his career has been, not as justification to wait for him.

[bigegypt0417]

I hope the Phillies' brass is playing this the way they played Arrieta last year, refuse to bid against yourself, offer good money but don't let excitement make you stupid.

You understand you're comparing apples to horseshoes, right?

[bkox]

Bob Nightengale (BNightengale)

[zambonir]

Getting both is tantalizing, but not sure it would actually be wise to have two mega-salaries on the same age and contract timeline (possibly including opt-outs though I guess you could try to stagger those). Also would make it a lot harder to add a pitcher (whether it's now or July or next year) especially with Arrietta being an x-factor (if he opts out at least you have money but if he doesn't you've got an expensive and likely underperforming rotation piece in 2020).

Trout is not the only future piece, nor is 2021 the only year of more big free agents. They could sign Harper now and Arenado next year, for instance. Or Machado now and Mookie Betts for 2021 (and he'll still be young).

Either way, maybe we'll actually know something before Feb 1. And it certainly appears it won't be "stupid money" or the "gross overpay" of AF's nightmares. As far as we can tell the market already has come to them to a large extent.

[andyb]

Adding the Segura salary instead of Crawford does subtract a bit from the financial flexibility that we would have if we actually did sign both. Not a huge problem, but that is the extra bit of money to add another starter potentially if it came to that. Ideally we want a half dozen solid contributors that are not yet making big money. It is one reason why giving Alfaro another season is the right move as opposed to dreaming about Realmuto. And I also have no problem with low cost arms in the rotation even if we ideally should have a left-hander.

[zambonir]

If you lose Franco this year and Hernandez next year I guess you have balanced Segura. I'm okay with the rotation as things currently stand too but who knows what the deadline or next year will bring.