2017 Season Phillies Discussion (News/Notes, etc.), continued

[flyers19rw]

We don't know if Mackanin called for the steal. It's why I also wrote "allowed". Altherr should have been playing under strict orders not to push anything with his legs.

[julio]

We don't know if Mackanin called for the steal. It's why I also wrote "allowed". Altherr should have been playing under strict orders not to push anything with his legs.

Which means what? Don't try to score from third on a fly ball? Don't try to score from second on a single to the outfield?

JMHO, but this smacks of looking for an excuse to criticize the manager.

[phillychuck]

The most valid complaint is that they allowed him to play at all. Let him heal completely before you put him in a situation where, as a competitive athlete, he's not going to be able to keep himself from running hard.

[julio]

The most valid complaint is that they allowed him to play at all. Let him heal completely before you put him in a situation where, as a competitive athlete, he's not going to be able to keep himself from running hard.

I can agree with this. But if they collectively (e.g., Mackanin, the trainers, and Altherr himself) deemed him available to play, there's no way to say, "Play, but don't play too hard!"

[phillychuck]

Agree. The trainers and Altherr are probably the most to blame. Lots of athletes want to play so much they put themselves at risk. I don't think Mac can do much if they tell him he's ready to play.

[zambonir]

It would be a different debate - and certainly one we've had before - if the games mattered. Play hurt because the team needs you, even at 80%, or rest up so you don't get hurt worse before the playoffs?

Bright side, maybe Nava has a good week or two and they can move him. They can certainly get by with Kim, Perkins, Kelly in a pinch. Or go short an OF and do the thing everyone really wants.

[flyers19rw]

That may well mean what you suggest. If taking that extra base means that the player risks being out for two weeks to a month, you don't do it. One run isn't worth it. Abreu did that by avoiding injuries by crashing into walls. The Phillies needed Altherr in the lineup more than an extra base. If that's being critical of the manager, then so be it.

[allentown]

Any word on how much time Altherr is likely to miss?

[zambonir]

"long than last time" is all I picked up from the philly.com story today.

[allentown]

flyers19rw:
We don't know if Mackanin called for the steal. It's why I also wrote "allowed". Altherr should have been playing under strict orders not to push anything with his legs.

Which means what? Don't try to score from third on a fly ball? Don't try to score from second on a single to the outfield?

Yes, I think it does mean most of that. Injured players play at partial strength all the time, but their injury has to be taken into consideration -- both to protect against worsening the injury and in consideration of the injury making the player less capable than he normally would be.

Joseph is playing, but there's a good reason he isn't catching. Pitchers are put on inning and pitch counts as they come back from an injury. A sore arm might move a RF to LF.
At a minimum, a bad hamstring would be expected to reduce the acceleration needed for stealing a base or advancing 2nd to home on a single. It is basically saying that Altherr can still hit normally, but needs to be treated as you would treat a significantly slower runner. The coaches need to recognize this and Altherr himself needs to recognize this. If a stolen base or advancing two bases on a single is a critical issue, then the manager may need to pinch run for a guy who would never need a pinch runner if healthy.

[bkox]

Kevin Cooney (KevinCooney)

[bkox]

21 out of 25 is kinda amazing. Kim, Nava, Blanco and Herrera are the 4. Velasquez realy shouldnt count though. He was there on a rehab assignment.

Matt Provence (PigsRadio)

[Philsmania]

I see a disturbing brittleness to Altherr. Not Roman Quinn proportion but still, he's brittle.

[Slinging_Southpaw]

That could also be Altherr not being completely honest about where he is in rehab, trying to get back onto the field.

[LoneStarPhan]

Perhaps Altherr felt fine and checked out completely, but just pulled the hamstring again. In retrospect, we can say he should have taken it easy or have been held out longer, but in fact, at some point, he will appear to be healed and ready to go. That does not mean that he cannot suffer the same injury again.

[andyb]

Players with hamstring injuries rarely feel 100%. They always think they can play at 95% and that is usually the case. I am sure Altherr just wanted to play and felt he could run without pulling it. Hopefully the problems are not chronic in future years, but it is something he can play with.

[fish]

BA's best tools survey is out. Hernandez takes 3rd place as 'best NL bunter', and second as 'best NL second baseman'.

These are exciting times to be a Phillies fan.

My 2-cents on Nick Williams- Nick Williams is a streaky hitter. When he goes on tears he looks great. What he looks like when this streak is over will be a better read of his development.

[Austinfan]

Neither Herrera or Williams will ever be high walk guys (one can hope, but experience teaches better).
The key to success for both of them is to discipline their aggressiveness, as Stairs points out, it's OK to attack first pitch strikes you can hit, but not breaking balls out of the K-zone, that even if you make contact, will be likely an out.
It's just a matter of having a plan when you go up to the plate, instead of blindly hacking at everything.

One thing I've noticed with a young lineup, they seem to be taken by surprise when pitchers throw offspeed stuff in "fastball" situations, first pitch, 2-0, 3-1 and 3-2 counts.
They need to understand that in today's game, everyone has video of you, smack a few FBs and don't expect to see any for a few days until you smack some offspeed pitches.

[bkox]

Neither Herrera or Williams will ever be high walk guys

I keep hearing you say this about Herrera but last year in April Herrera had 23 walks in 24 games and 34 in 51 games. Thats about 1/3 of a season. So he showed that he can be a high walk guy... but something changed. Whether that was the phillies changing him (afraid he wasnt agressive enough) of Herrera changing we dont know. But he certainly showed the skill was there for pitch recognition and taking a walk.

[Austinfan]

What happened is pitchers started pounding the inside of the plate with FBs instead of nibbling.
Herrera then responded by hacking away.
The thing with Herrera is everything with him is streaky, some games he lays off bad pitches, other games he swings at anything within two feet of the plate. Some games he can't buy contact, other games it's laser city.
However, I've made my peace with him, he's basically Garry Maddux, as he gets more experience in CF, he's showing similar range, and as a hitter Maddux was a worse hacker and less talented than Odubel (one great season notwithstanding).

Williams is a little different, he's only 23, he seems to be trying to learn, and if he just gets a little smarter he's got such fast hands that he can put a lot of first pitch strikes into play.
He's a better fundamental hitter than Odubel, doesn't have that crazy stance and wasted motion.