2017 Non-Phillies MLB Discussion

[California_Dreamin]

I would not give up on Thompson yet, I think he may have been McClurized [if I recall the Phils tinkered with his delivery when he got to the big leagues] and I believe the talent is still there.

And it is Thompson who also has been victimized both in Philadelphia and at LHV with the Phils experimentation of having infielders play the outfield. He was the pitcher when Hoskins had problems with a fly ball that lead to 2-3 runs and then I read at phuturephillies that he also was the non beneficiary of poor outfield play in a recent start.

Look, no doubt he has had a bad year, but confidence is a mercurial thing and it doesn't take much failure in a young player to affect confidence. Some pitchers [Lively seems like one, Pivetta another] who don't seem particularly affected by this stuff, but Thompson may be one of those hurlers who might need to have the best defensive group out there when he pitches until he gets it together.

In fact, not surprising that the one game he pitched well [shut out the Braves] I remember reading that the Phils made 2-3 outstanding defensive plays behind him.

[zambonir]

Don't forget the Phillies sent Dieckmann too. He probably doesn't get you Asher and Eickhoff on his own but he gets you Asher and something.

I have a hard time blaming McLure for Thompson when he was just so terrible at AAA all year, even if he did have that rough patch in the majors to finish last season first. But he was also hurt, and yo-yo-ed.

These are not easy decisions, but the system isn't designed to let you keep 10 pitchers of a certain age on the 40 and see which three work out. Appel is presumably gone, Thompson is another good candidate to be thrown into a trade. Any of the current pitchers besides Velasquez are good trade candidates in that sense, the other team will probably want someone cheap and young who can plausibly, if not definitively, join their 2018 rotation.

[nycphils]

think NY, LA or Miami where she can wear her skimpy swimsuits all year long and the Marlins will have new owners who may want to make some flashy moves (doubtful that the rumored fire sale will happen;

...you say these things as if they are bad...

[California_Dreamin]

If you trade Thompson you are trading him at his lowest value, big mistake. Thompson was solid at LHV last year, then got brought up and they began tinkering with his delivery, almost like they did with Nola. He has not been the same since.

Why pitching coaches and organizations do this, I will never understand. It also happened to Appel in Houston and he has never been the same. I am a big believer in the "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" theory. How many "experts" said Herrera could never be successful in the big leagues with his strange stance and hitting style? More than a few.

Thank goodness the Phils left him alone [or he refused to change, if so good for him]. Thompson should have been allowed to succeed/fail on his stuff and delivery and then changes could be made if he failed. I also was not a big phan last year of this "now you see him, now you don't" use of Thompson in the majors/minors. It reminded me of how the Phils misused Gavin Floyd, a guy who never blossomed till he left Philadelphia.

Look, I am not saying the Phils haven't helped Morgan, maybe Garcia, perhaps Milner. And I applaud them for that. But far too many young and talented hurlers are flaming out in Philadelphia once they get there for the organization to not at least study why this is happening.

Afterall, it is almost mandatory to the McPhail Success Theorem...develop pitching, sign as free agents, hitters. If you are not developing the young hurlers that are coming up, how can you ever proceed to the second half of the theorem.

[zambonir]

You don't expect value if you trade Thompson, you are doing it as much for compression as a return, by throwing him into another deal. Are you 100% confident he deserves the 40-man spot? Obviously it depends who you might lose if he keeps his.

[Philsmania]

Thank goodness the Phils left him alone [or he refused to change, if so good for him]. Thompson should have been allowed to succeed/fail on his stuff and delivery and then changes could be made if he failed. I also was not a big phan last year of this "now you see him, now you don't" use of Thompson in the majors/minors. It reminded me of how the Phils misused Gavin Floyd, a guy who never blossomed till he left Philadelphia.

Look, I am not saying the Phils haven't helped Morgan, maybe Garcia, perhaps Milner. And I applaud them for that. But far too many young and talented hurlers are flaming out in Philadelphia once they get there for the organization to not at least study why this is happening.

Afterall, it is almost mandatory to the McPhail Success Theorem...develop pitching, sign as free agents, hitters. If you are not developing the young hurlers that are coming up, how can you ever proceed to the second half of the theorem.

We are kind of getting into Phillies stuff here so maybe the mods will relocate this. But, putting that aside, I don't know if we are seeing you pitchers flaming out so much as they are taking their early lumps. An example I like to point out is how Glavine and Smoltz got knocked around when they first came up. Now, don't get me wrong, I'm not saying any of Thompson, Efflin, Lively, Pivetta or Velasquez will be as good as those two HOFers, but I think they provide an example of how pitchers, even the best of them, often don't succeed right away. Hamels had an ERA over 4.00 his rookie season. Nola struggled last year in his first full ML season. I would not be the least bit surprised if at least one those aforementioned young Phillies pitchers who have struggled in 2017 take a quantum leap and emerge as effective ML starters in 2018.

[allentown]

Hamels had an ERA over 4.00 his rookie season

Hamels also had almost 10 Ks/9. Velasquez and Pivetta have very good K rates, although they walk too many. The other young pitchers do not. The two successful pitchers, Nola and Eickhoff, have very good K rates.

[bkox]

Angels just used an AL record 12 pitchers in a game.... and the game was only 11 innings.

http://www.espn.com/mlb/boxscore?gameId=370904111

[bkox]

YCPB (cantpredictball)

[DurhamBull]

Red Sox admit to stealing signs using replay cameras. (And Apple Watches, apparently, although they play a minor role other than garnering clicks on the headline.)

Boston Red Sox Used Apple Watches to Steal Signs Against Yankees

[zambonir]

The Home Run Explosion Is Not Exactly Beyond Suspicion

[Philsmania]

The Home Run Explosion Is Not Exactly Beyond Suspicion

I am also a cycling fan. When it comes to doping, it's a big, constant cat and mouse game.

[bkox]

https://sports.yahoo.com/derek-jeter-reportedly-orders-firing-marlins-legends-two-hall-famers-020645572.html

[bkox]

Christopher Kamka (ckamka)

[zambonir]

Whatever the reason for the power explosion, it's another reason why Joseph, Rupp and Galvis don't have futures here, and Franco's is still tenuous. Simply slugging some isn't enough.

[andyb]

Interesting comment from Eric Longenhagen on Fangraphs in his chat talking about power in the current game:

"I'm not sure how to project power anymore, to be honest. The ball, as well as a myriad of other factors, has changed the way the game plays on paper in the big leagues. And only in the big leagues, which is a problem."

Which goes back to the discussion about the major league ball being "juiced" or simply carrying further than before. I guess we can verify, but he implies that these factors are unique to the majors which makes me think that the minor leagues uses a different version of the ball which has not seen the manufacturing changes that the major league version has seen.

This would go a long ways to explain the home run increase (and frankly guys like Judge and Bellinger and Hoskins all putting up unprecedented numbers this year) from non-power hitters such as Galvis and others.

IMO it is not a positive change for the game and I am thinking swing loft analytics (which would show up in the minors theoretically) are not the major cause of the home run explosion.

[kmc1019]

Good read on Tim Lincecum who took the baseball world by storm and then just as quickly disintegrated:

Where have you gone, Tim Lincecum? In search of beloved Giants ace

[Philsmania]

Good read on Tim Lincecum who took the baseball world by storm and then just as quickly disintegrated:

Where have you gone, Tim Lincecum? In search of beloved Giants ace

I remember reading an MLB.com article last year in 2016 ruminating about possible future HOFers who were currently playing in MLB. The article had a caveat, however, which stated that the road to Cooperstown is perilous and then listed a number of guys who five years earlier (2011) would have been deemed future HOFers, among them Lincecum, Sabathia, Fielder, our own Utley and Howard, Mauer and Wright.

[Philsmania]

Looking over the standings, it really jumped out at me how, all in all, this has not been a particularly interesting season or, at least, pennant chase. The only thing that really is at issue at this point is the second NL wildcard berth but Milwaukee's late push for it seems to be petering out. The only division not clinched yet is the NL Central but the Cubs can wrap that up tonight (magic number is one). Twins can wrap up the second AL wildcard berth as early as tonight if they win and the Angels lose.

But here's what else jumps out at me. The five AL postseason teams--or, in the case of the Twins, likely postseason teams--are the only teams in the AL that have winning records. In the NL, only seven teams even have winning records. Eighteen out of thirty teams are south of .500. That's a lot of not-good teams. I thought the age of analytics was supposed to be a tide that rose a lot of boats.

[California_Dreamin]

Yea, Lincecum was the reason I absolutely did NOT want to face the Giants in the 2010 playoffs, I so wanted the Padres and then the Braves to keep the Phils from having to face SF. He just seemed to be in one of those magical grooves that all athletes have had at least once in their careers and its almost surreal, you are sort of having an out of body experience and tell yourself later it didn't even seem as if it was YOU that was performing.

That was Tim Lincecum in 2010 and sure enough, his 4-3 win against Halladay in Game One of the NLCS turned that entire playoff around. The Giants later talked about how until that game they didn't believe they had a chance but when Lincecum beat Halladay they went into the clubhouse and said "hey, we can win this thing!"