Discussion

andyb 2017-10-03 14:49:46 UTC #21

I don't want to give up on Franco even if he is not the ideal solution. There is just no reason to rush because they do have options (potentially Galvis) and there is a chance he will improve. Obviously this is also the place to seriously think about angling for a free agent like Machado or Arenado eventually.

Trade Cesar. Start Galvis at 2B until Kingery is ready. Sign a LH 3B/1B backup (since both our starters are right-handed) as insurance. And then give Franco at least another good half season to show improvement before making a move.

Starting pitching should be addressed this winter, not necessarily 3B.

Philsmania 2017-10-03 14:54:43 UTC #22

Franco deserves more time though I think his statute of limitations expires at the end of next season.

gmwannabe 2017-10-03 15:34:27 UTC #23

i caught a little of the post season press conference with andy mcphail. interesting in that he said the phils have applied for a 2nd Gulf Coast team. i think he said that would put them with toronto with the most minor league teams. they are also looking to add to their international scouting team. Good things to hear.
gm

andyb 2017-10-03 15:48:33 UTC #24

Not sure it would make us number one but it would be close. The Yankees have 4 short season teams for instance (2 GCL, 1 Appy, 1 NY-Penn) plus their DSL team. I think they have only 1 DSL so this would tie us with the Yankees. The Tigers also have 2 GCL teams and the Padres have 2 Arizona teams.

Good move regardless. While it might be nice to be in the more advanced Appalachian League, I think the Phillies like having lots of things going on near the Clearwater complex (extended, instructional, etc.). They also do lots of rehab out of the complex during the season, so an extra team means that interferes a little less with development.

DurhamBull 2017-10-03 16:24:08 UTC #25

I feel the same. It's not as if the Phils will be battling for contention next season; they still have time to let Franco figure out how to make the most of his talent. If he can do that, he's probably got a 5-10 year career in the majors. But at the same time, it behooves the club to have plans B, C, and D in mind in case he's hitting .225 midseason.

Patchmk88 2017-10-03 18:32:48 UTC #26

Looks as if the owner's want to spend some money but MacPhail doesn't (it could be posturing to help the public's opinion of the owners, but I don't think so). Based on the information in the article it doesn't look like we'll be going after the top notch pitchers like Darvish. Instead it looks like we can look for more short term deals.

Not exactly sure how I feel about this. On one hand I'd rather spend money on next year's FA class because I think they are better and we will be closer to competing. On the other hand, I think we need to make a decent sized splash this offseason in order to attract a premium FA or two next year.

Lawman 2017-10-03 18:49:21 UTC #27

I'm reading the same thing into it. Owners are willing to spend the $, but MacPhail wants to wait a spend smartly.

I'm ok with that, as long as "spend smartly" isn't a code word for "not spend at all."

zambonir 2017-10-03 19:29:07 UTC #28

Here's the other story. Probably better to under-promise and over-deliver. It still really depends on the market. I don't know that they need to make a splash to attract players in 2019 but they do need to have a better team.

“We’ve already talked to ownership about it and explained to them why,” MacPhail said. “They did not react extraordinarily well in the beginning. Ultimately, they’re OK with it with one proviso: that if an opportunity presents itself, we do not exclude it. They understand the program.”

Certainly I would rather have a GM who is stopping Middleton from contracts like Ryan Howard and AJ Burnett (both of which he had a role in) and Papelbon than vice-versa.

bigegypt0417 2017-10-03 19:32:25 UTC #29

I think we need to be a better team next year and show FA's we're up and coming.

If this team can sniff .500 I think that issue takes care of itself. Especially with the amount of money this ownership has.

California_Dreamin 2017-10-03 19:34:01 UTC #30

Yes, I agree with those who believe McPhail and it certainly quiets a bit the concern that posters like myself and allentown had about Middleton having to cut back his spending due to the family lawsuit.

It also re-confirms something that Rosenthal wrote about a month ago about there being a big disagreement within the Phils hierarchy about the slow and steady approach [McPhail] vs the win in 2018 approach [Middleton.]

One thing that also would back up these feelings...Middleton was around for the WS berths and saw the team disintegrate for 4 years and is very anxious to get to winning. McPhail, who didn't join the team till 2015 has always been known as a more methodical, patient builder.

It speaks volumes to me of McPhail's confidence level in himself that he would literally challenge the owner...an owner by the way who is reputed to have a bad temper occasionally.

I admit that I am as comfortable with management [owner, president, GM] as I have been since 2008 when I had total trust in Gillick and Arbuckle. Always felt that the Phils made the wrong choice when they selected Amaro over Arbuckle and I still recall that funny Hitler video when he finds out that Arbuckle isn't getting the job and Amaro is. Still think its one of the funniest I have ever seen.

zambonir 2017-10-03 19:43:28 UTC #31

MacPhail did imply they'll probably get two starters: one by trade, and one free agent. The FA just won't be at the top of the market unless things break right.

If the right pitcher becomes available my guess is you'll see two pitchers and one position player moved out for him, just a question of what level those players are at (but presumably at least one guy who started a game for both the Pigs and the Phillies this year would be included).

phillychuck 2017-10-03 19:44:17 UTC #32

I'm usually the #1 advocate for building with patience, but I think this team NEEDS to spend money on a solid starting pitcher or two. There is no prize in baseball for having the fewest bad contracts--there will always be others spending money and you can't use salary in 2018 in 2020. All the recent WS winners have carried bad contracts, so fear of a bad contract shouldn't immobilize you.

A pitcher or two will take pressure off the rest of the young rotation and let them develop in more limited roles. Let's get Cobb and Lynn for $15M each (3 years) and let the chips fall where they may. I think my Otani lust is a pipe dream, but I'd love to chase him and make him say no.

zambonir 2017-10-03 20:04:08 UTC #33

If you can get either of those guys at that price, they absolutely will, though I'd still be reluctant to take on a QO FA.

I don't think money is an issue. They just won't sign a four or five year deal, and there's a limit to how much they would overpay to try and get a shorter term. The market will determine this.

EDmuch 2017-10-03 21:03:04 UTC #34

I am not happy with this. In order to attract UFA's in 2019, they have to be a close to competitive team in 2018. They need to add respectable starting pitchers, not the Clay Bucholtz of the moment type pitchers. There has been plenty of "patience" over the past three years and I was fine with that. But at some point you have to start fielding a competitive team with competitive starting pitching. That point should be 2018 not 2019,

EDmuch 2017-10-03 21:03:24 UTC #35

That first 2018 should be 2019,

kikutaro 2017-10-03 21:07:29 UTC #36

Click on the pencil to edit a post

julio 2017-10-03 21:13:49 UTC #37

Hey... EDmuch at least read what he had posted. A lot of times, it doesn't appear that posters even do that.

That said, I fixed it...

zambonir 2017-10-03 21:31:48 UTC #38

In the end it's what they do, not what they say. There's a big gap between signing one of the top available, potentially overpriced (and older) FA pitchers and another Buchholtz (or even another Hellickson).

Plus, they spent almost $70 million on new acquisitions last year, I doubt they are going to have a lower payroll. Just a low one. They're not gonna sign a closer and they don't really need to sign a starting position player and they have 2-4 position players to trade. A lot is going to be done.

If the only priority was to win games in 2018 - whether for its own sake or to set the table for 2019 - I would keep Galvis and Hernandez, get a new 3B and add an OF who could potentially start if Williams or Altherr falter (physically or performance-wise). Maybe a better back-up catcher (instead of the third catcher type they'll probably get) too. Throw in your FA starter and you've got an expensive team that could win. But also one that could backfire and would stick you with bad money in three years. I don't think that's a good plan, and it also wouldn't even be the team you'd be selling the 2019 FAs on. They'll get the pitchers, but the difference between a .475 team and a .525 team next year will be how the rookies and sophomores (and the incumbent 3B) do.

To do what the Cubs did with Lester would require both a Lester-caliber player and a Lester-type contract. I don't think this is the year for that.

julio 2017-10-03 22:13:28 UTC #39

Umm, yes. If people read what MacPhail said (see PhillyVoice - Ryan Lawrence's article), he said they're not going to be a "top five" payroll. My reaction to that was, "Well, duh." The only way they could get to a top five payroll would be by signing multiple high-priced veterans - who would than have to play. A couple of starting pitchers isn't going to yield a top-five payroll, given how much of the roster is going to be earning $1 million or less - and I doubt that many here want the club to sign high-priced veterans that push guys like Altherr, Herrera, Williams, Hoskins, Crawford, Hernandez, Franco, or Alfaro to the bench!

andyb 2017-10-03 22:21:09 UTC #40

It will be a challenge to have a $100 million payroll. Young players and arbitration only get us to $20-$25 million at the moment.

Hopefully they have an eye on trading for expensive arbitration-eligible players. That ideally cost less in prospects because they are expensive. For instance I would be fine adding a Samardzija type for little prospect cost compared to signing a Lynn or a Cobb. Not saying he is the answer, but he would be better than guys like Hellickson, Morton, and Buchholz potentially.