The Ended Flyers Thread

[zambonir]

What I've read of Fletcher's comments, he was definitely aggressively pitching JVR to other teams. His skill, his playoff experience, the fact that he'd only cost you 50 cents on the dollar. Nobody was buying because even at 50 cents on the dollar few teams could still take on the reduced cap hit, or at least they could find someone with a lower cap hit who was also possiblly better. He also specifically said he'd been trying to move JVR for three weeks (but I know, angry mob ) and would have taken back a contract, or conditional picks. The Detroit offer was the first one he got over those three weeks, with 80 minutes to spare. And then it fell apart.

The Wings were the team that was going to take JVR though. He was going to replace someone else they intended to trade off their roster.

When they finally do fire Fletcher it will just be insult to injury that they wasted this year (and more). Though I suppose if they had fired him that would have just left Holmgren running the trade deadline (just like Gillick his second time with the Phillies except Gillick was better at his job - though not so much by then).

I think Dave Scott is tighter with Brian Roberts than with Ralph Roberts. They are both in their 60s, and Brian is the guy who hired Scott originally in the '90s (when he was already Comcast president).

The issue with Scott is the Flyers are just a small part of his job. They could make Camillo the team governor, but both of them are running a much bigger business in which the wins and losses and even attendance and ratings for the hockey team are just a sliver of the overall picture. That Holmgren was still president and Fletcher also replaced him as president is likely part of the problem. Scott doesn't need to be replaced necessarily; there just needs to be a Luuko (or Dombrowski) type at the top of the team organization, who can also be trusted to hire a good GM. Maybe that is Briere, though I'm still leery of any Comcast insider. Selling the team and getting out from corporate ownership would still be better.

[Docs]

Though I suppose if they had fired him that would have just left Holmgren running the trade deadline

I didn't think of that and its such a good point - we were doomed no matter what!

[Docs]

1. If we judge at the time of the trade, I don't have any issue with this one. I included it in the list because I know a lot of fans didn't like the trades (or maybe just passing on Caufield), (11 for 14&45) and (45 & 65 for 34). Combined the flyers gave up 11 and 65 and received 14 and 34.

2. true - i just did some reading on ellis and it sounds like his injury history in nashville was unrelated to his current injury. unless you want to label him injury prone.

3 - disagree that ghost was dumped at market price - the flyers didn't get anything back in return, they had to give the coyotes a 2nd round pick to take ghost which is too steep, and even worse when you combine the Def trades that followed.

Going out: Ghost, Hagg, a first (2021 - 14th), 3 seconds (2022, 2023, 2024), a third (2023), a fourth (2022) and a 7th (2022)
Coming Back: Ristolainen & DeAngelo and a 7th

Any office fans familiar with the Deleted Scene from Michael Scott's currency exchange at the airport?

At the airport, Michael changes US$2000 into Canadian currency (for strippers). Oscar tells him that he shouldn't do that because the exchange rate provided by the credit card company will be better. Michael changes the money back. Andy points out that strippers don't take credit cards, so Michael changes into Canadian dollars again. This goes back and forth, each time he loses the exchange fee until he ends up with $200 less than he started.

Thats what I think of when I think about Fletcher flipping defenders.

Fletcher's real problem was he patched and patched with no real vision.

100% agree

[Austinfan]

When COVID hit and the cap flattened out, cap room became a premium asset.
Florida gave up a 2nd and a prospect to dump Stralman at 1yr, $5M.
Ladd cost (2) 2nd rd picks to dump.

That's a different question whether they SHOULD have dumped Ghost. But the price was the market price.

That's the thing with Fletcher, he pays the going rate, but he doesn't work hard to find bargains and arbitrage market flaws.
He epitomizes "mediocre."

[Aquapong]

1-0 in the Brendan Lemeiux era.

[bigegypt0417]

Fletcher has been fired...about a year too late.

Flyers fire embattled general manager Chuck Fletcher after four-plus seasons

[zambonir]

And a month too late on top of that!

Clearly they were hoping not to fire him, but the trade deadline and the general mess of things in the locker room finally sealed his fate.

I'm sure Holmgren, Clarke and Barber will find someone great

And Briere interim, which is curious IMO. Are we looking at a sham search, or do they think he still needs a few years in a formal assistant GM role (which I know one recent column I read suggested was the case - they just didn't expect to have to can Fletcher this soon).

Ah, there's the tell: so do they bring in a Dombrowski type for Briere to work under, or will he take on the president/business role above a new GM?

In the release, Scott revealed that the organization will be splitting up the general manager and president of hockey operations roles into two separate hires going forward. For now, Brière will occupy both positions.

[Docs]

Today is a good day!

[Aquapong]

Briere may not end up being to eventual permanent GM, but it will be good for him to get a taste of the role.

[VoteForKalas]

Fletcher has been fired...about a year too late.

He should never have been hired. Based on his MN performance, he was a bad choice even if one accepts that Hextall failed.

[zambonir]

Opinions are clearly mixed on whether it's a fait accompli that he gets one job or the other, but I would think it is unless he is part of a total housecleaning. One of the reasons he got the job he already has is because Montreal already considered making him GM.

The question is will they have someone new in time to prepare for and run the draft, or does Briere end up in charge of that by default?

If you read these stories the only other move is clear - keep the Flyers Hall of Famers in the Hall of Fame and out of the front office. It's funny how similar all of it is to the Phillies really, including the part where there were a few attempts at front office change without accompanying culture change.

With Chuck Fletcher out, the Flyers have hit their next inflection point

Firing Chuck Fletcher gives the Flyers a shot at a fresh start. They had better...

[VoteForKalas]

I'm sure Holmgren, Clarke and Barber will find someone great

This, along with the poor owner leadership by Scott et al., is a real problem - the four riders of the old school (Lombardi, Clarke, Holmgren and Barber) need to be sent packing before another hire is made. This cadre of "special" assistants to the GM makes the Phillies farce of the same ilk look enlightened. Have the stones to fire these people and finally shed the onerous dead thinking that has kept this organization in the dark ages for years.

[zambonir]

Well, I hope I was kidding, this time! One of the articles I posted above since posting that also does think Scott might move on, though my guess is not quite yet... but he will take on this responsiblity, to ease those guys out the door. If not, no, nothing changes.

At least Lombardi won stuff! Unfortunately Hextall, while more promising, was part of the same cadre (the Kings part as much as the ex-Flyers part) even as he didn't suck up to his former bosses, and may not last too long across the state either.

[flyers19rw]

Hilferty has Scott’s job. It was said when he was hired last month that they were going to be partnered up. That won’t last long. Scott is in his 70’s and should be ready to hang it up.
Camillo is set to continue in her position. Tortorella is set for a few more seasons. Briere will be in the FO probably focusing on player drafting and roster construction. There are the four top people to move the organization forward. The next big adds will be someone to run the hockey operations (President?) and another to handle the ins and outs on the financial side-cap, contracts, etc.
The past Flyers FO had too many hangers on and needed to be culled. In this place, Hextall was right. If the new regime doesn’t address that, nothing really will change.

[Austinfan]

According to O'Connor, further changes are in store, Scott and the advisors are on the way out - frankly, even among ST holders, most are too young to have much attachment to Clarke or Barber, Holmgren is tainted by the last decade and nobody cares about Lombardi.

If this happens, I expect some Flyer "lifers" on staff to be let go - Snider treated his employees like family, which is good and bad, but when it comes to scouts and development personnel, mostly bad. In a competitive sport, you can't be loyal to subpar performers.

[zambonir]

Hilferty and Camillo both seem to be purely business side people. If either of them - or someone new - become the Flyers' governor in the NHL, that would be the big change. Otherwise, it is on Scott to set a course for change even if he is easing out. Either way I don't know why there is any reason to be confident in anyone Comcast or the Flyers (or Dave Scott himself) have put into place up to this point. Until proven otherwise.

And Scott is 69. That's only three years older than Dave Dombrowski and six years older than Brian Roberts. And younger than Clarke and Barber. Scott really isn't the problem, he merely had no new vision or authority to move the team forward from Snider, and Comcast's goals will never be fully compatible with what's best for the Flyers organization in and of itself. One suspects Peter Luukko already knew both of those things were intractable issues when he left almost 10 years ago.

Middleton and the Bucks have managed to (seemingly) transform the Phillies despite their families being part of the ownership group for many decades. There is something to be said for generational change. But that's a bit harder to expect from the CEO and Board of Directors of a massive public corporation. Brian Roberts does have a son, but he's mostly only done esports (and not very well).

[Aquapong]

I suppose after the Finals, there will be a date where we can start trading again. I’ve got to imagine TK, Laughton, and Hart will be asked about a lot by other teams. DeAngelo and Seeler will both be on expiring deals. Do we move one or both to open up time for younger guys? DeAngelo probably should be given away for a bag of beat up practice hockey pucks if someone asks. Seeler has been pretty solid in his role and I’d want something decent in return.

Cates, Frost, and York are probably headed for a bridge type deals. Maybe we’ll see Attard get the same treatment. We’ve got years of playing through overpaid and underperforming contracts ahead of us.

[zambonir]

Travis Konecny might have played his last game as a Flyer

That was even before Fletcher got fired.

[Austinfan]

Pure speculation.

Hayes - traded with money retained/bad contract back
Provorov - traded b/c they won't want to extend him at 29
Laughton - probably traded, Torts favorite, but is 29 next season with 3x3, so attractive trade bait

TK - tough call, 2 years left on his deal, do you trade or extend?
TDA - hard to move this summer, easier at TDL next spring (teams would rather gamble on 20 games with him)
Risto - Shaw has done a great job cleaning up his defense, if they move him, next summer (3 years left) is more likely
Allison - 26 next season, he's managed to stay healthy, would have a solid market
Laczynski - 26 next season, injuries mean his value is low
Sandstrom - a few more games like Carolina and he'll have trade value

Farabee - coming off surgery, would be selling low, lot's of upside, only 23 next year
Sanheim - bad season, big contract, doubtful he's going anywhere
Tippett - "you ain't going nowhere"
Frost - getting chance to nail down 2C role rest of season
Cates - "you ain't going nowhere"
York - "you ain't going nowhere"

Hart - they may wait a year, see more of Ersson, whether Fedotov escapes the Gulag, how Kosolov is progressing

[system]

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