The New Unending Flyers thread

[zambonir]

I don't see how Torts has done a bad job given the franchise's goals, the general talent level, the disastrous goaltending situation that included a lot of weird external forces (Hart's legal troubles, Fedotov's troubles, Kolosov's refusal to initially come over, Gauthier) and trades that have not been made with playoff berths in mind (Walker last year and now this and whatever comes next). He was hired by Fletcher to win, but he was not retained by Briere to win. If he only cared about his legacy he would have left by now or would be begging Briere to acquire better players, instead he was the first one leading the rebuild and actively involved in these roster shake-outs. Whatever he's said in the past about a contract extension means very little now and is largely irrelevant since the Flyers obviously plan to keep him employed by the franchise after he's done coaching. if that changes because he still wants to coach longer than yeah, he'll probably leave.

Anything that gets the Flyers higher in the draft lottery is fine by me. Advancing the rebuild by one year due to Michkov's arrival and freed-up cap space also seems like a big plus. The next month and then June will tell the tale.

And how has he not developed or elevated Sanheim, Tippett, Foerster, Cates and several others? He is also developing Michkov, if you want the kid to actually be a well-rounded NHL player.

[Austinfan]

Torts turned around TB (SC), turned around CBJ (see them before and after) before the GM deep sixed that team.
He's better with young teams where he doesn't have to deal with established vets who don't like to be pushed, his biggest critic was Dubinsky, who he demoted to 3C in CBJ and two years later was out of the league.

If you actually listen to Torts' pressers, he's very patient this season, he's focused on process, how they play, not results, whether they win. He's still brutally honest (forget all the HC cliches) but not in a mean way, more in "you watched the game what do you think" type of response - which is refreshing, compared to the line of bull that most HCs feed the media.

He's got this team playing an aggressive forechecking style, he wants the D-men to move the puck out of the D-zone by skating or quick passes, not just chuck it up the boards. He also wants D-men to be aggressive in the O-zone, but that requires one of the forwards to be aware and cycle back (don't want 4 players caught deep).

The problem right now is talent and learning to play the scheme and cut back on mistakes and stupid penalties.

This is the 2nd year of the rebuild, under Scott/Fletcher they refused to rebuild, followed the G trade with an extension for Risto and a trade for TDA instead of trading Risto and another player or two. That set them back a year.

I still contend 2027-28 is the target year (5 year rebuild).

This season was about player evaluation, Frost and Farabee are gone b/c they're "soft" - compare to Brink who is smaller, who has greatly improved in his off the puck play. Torts isn't against offense, what he's against are offense first players who become observers when they don't have the puck on their stick.

I think Briere is going to make a couple more trades this spring/June.
Then he's going shopping, but I don't see a big FA acquisition - what they'd want is an up and coming 26 year old and they rarely hit FA. He may make a trade for a young center if he can pry one loose.
I can see them adding a 30+ veteran center to hold the fort while the centers they draft this summer grow up.

[zambonir]

I still contend 2027-28 is the target year (5 year rebuild).

But it's not anymore. If they keep Risto (and possibly Laughton too) they are trying to make the playoffs next year. If they don't but flip some of the picks in June for players, they are still thinking about that, and taking another step in '26-27. Either way it will surely be time for a fresh coaching voice by then. I'm not at all bothered by Torts as coach; I'd be more bothered if he did stay past his current deal or if the sucession plan is the same old Flyers Way (i.e. a current assistant or Lappy or even your pet theory/choice who's still in Pittsburgh).

[Squire]

They need to tank. They needed to tank last year (or at least have the courage to draft Zev Buiim when he fell in their lap). Dump Risto. Dump Laughton. The Edmonton and Colorado 1st rounders are headed to the bottom of the first round. Our only hope for a premium prospect is our own pick. Its time for Danny to act like the GM and not just do what Torts tells him. Changing the shade of orange isn't anything I care about.

[zambonir]

I don't think Torts is leading any kind of charge to try and win now or accelerate the rebuild next year. If they choose the latter, that is coming from Briere (and Jones). And Torts has publicly stated he knows Risto might get traded. He might not like it but he probably didn't like losing Walker either.

They seem to be tanking just fine already, currently picking 6th, after five straight losses and 1-7 in the last 8. I doubt the arrival of the new players will help that much. Getting to top 3 probably not realistic, you just don't want them to get on a run out of single digits. Still a long time until the trade deadline.

[Docs]

Based on the rankings I’ve seen, picking top four or five would be just fine, this isn’t a draft where one or two people are separating themselves as generational players, the top tier are viewed as solid blue chippers. And if they like somebody in the teens, they have additional draft capital to move up and get a second player that they feel good about. The upside of late first and early second round picks is probably comparable to Farabee and Frost. It’s supposed to be a deep draft so maybe those Colorado and Edmonton picks have more upside than normal but i agree they will need to get the job done with their first pick.

[zambonir]

I'm still assuming they will trade one of those other firsts if not both of them, so then the question becomes is it for a move-up or for a player? (Obviously if they do it in March it's for a player).

And also it's still possible one or both of them will be closer to 20 than 30 (playoff upsets happen and neither team is guaranteed to win its division, Avs probably won't).

[Pat_Burrell]

As long as the Flyers are picking in the top 6-8 they should come away with a nice prospect. Schaefer a LHD is projected to go tops but Hagens who is a C or Martone who is a RW are still in the mix. I really like C Caleb Desnoyers. There is also the 2 Swede forwards along with C Misa who is a goal scoring machine. F McQueen is also highly touted. So I have a top tier of 3 guys, then another tier of 5, so as long as they pick in the top 8 they should get someone good

[bkeich]

I'm still assuming they will trade one of those other firsts if not both of them, so then the question becomes is it for a move-up or for a player? (Obviously if they do it in March it's for a player).

And also it's still possible one or both of them will be closer to 20 than 30 (playoff upsets happen and neither team is guaranteed to win its division, Avs probably won't).

I think I would rather see them continue to add prospects than use multiple assets to try and hit on a big talent. We still only have an ok pipeline of young players in the minors. Future years might be good to try and hit the HR, but getting a few 1st round picks into the system given our timeline for competing seems like the best plan.

[zambonir]

Well, that does go back to Squire's point. They are currently 6th but could easily go on a few runs and end up in the 10-14 range. 12-16 doesn't even get a shot at the #1 overall. And if they are 8-10 they could still drop from the lottery. Should they decide to hold on to guys and/or manage to trade for a player who can help longer-term, harder to tank.

I could see them trading Laughton, whose value will never be higher, but not Risto, who could still help them next year and have the same value (or better) next trade deadline with less $ left on his deal.

I think I would rather see them continue to add prospects than use multiple assets to try and hit on a big talent. We still only have an ok pipeline of young players in the minors. Future years might be good to try and hit the HR, but getting a few 1st round picks into the system given our timeline for competing seems like the best plan.

They're not gonna be able to get a big talent, that would probably require their own pick. But if they can turn one of the firsts and a second and a few players into a young center who will be around for five-six years that fits the timeline. If they are able to draft a future 1 or 2 C with their higher pick, even better to have two.

[Austinfan]

I think Briere is selling, he said this year is about evaluation. Identify the long-term core.
Laughton, Risto, Hathaway, Seeler (NTC but would probably waive for PO team) won't be around in 2027-28.
Have to decide on Poehling, Abols is a patch the next few years, Kuz maybe if he's low cost, Pelletier auditioning.

Didn't like the return on Farabee/Frost but realistically, if no one would take Farabee without retention (and I doubt they were offering a 1st, since Danny would probably retain in that case), just shows that teams feel his regression this year may be due to the neck injury, he hasn't added strength the last few years and is an average skater.

So Farabee for Kuz is a salary dump, two players struggling after solid offensive seasons (both limited defensively).
Frost for 2nd and Pelletier (3rd to 4th rd value coming off solid run at 23, 24g 4-7 11, 2.5 GAR).

Given that Briere had been shopping both around the league, and showed with Provorov and Walker (who signed for 5yr/$18M to play 3rd pair role) that he can extract value, Flyer fans overestimated Farabee and Frost. So far, SSS, Farabee playing with Huberdeau and Kadri, 1 G, 0 A in 4 games. Frost is struggling as the 3C playing with lesser talent than he was given in Philly.

I think neither was in the plans not b/c of Torts, but Briere. Briere was a small player in the clutch and grab era, where holding, hooking, slashing and elbowing was common. A smaller player had to have strength and balance, and play with an edge to survive. And I think he looks for those qualities in smaller players - b/c he wants players who'll step up in the playoffs like he did. Frost and Farabee played "soft," primarily b/c both lack strength. TK is his kind of small player.

[zambonir]

Let's hope Pelletier is Brier's kind of player. Otherwise he's Peter White (and White was bigger).

[Austinfan]

From all reports he's exactly what Briere loves.
Feisty, two way player who forechecks, PKs, has some skill.
I think combination of lack of size and average speed will limit him to a bottom six role, but also kind of player who'll accept demotion to 4LW and not complain and play just as hard.

A depth player who'll fight for a job every September.

[zambonir]

Yeah but he's not a great trade return or a guy you re-sign for very long if he can't find some of that AHL offense in The Show.

[jimbomill]

at least have the courage to draft Zev Buiim when he fell in their lap

Oh yeah, that still rankles me. Reminds me of the fella in Draft Day who trades the #6 pick to the future John Dutton, avoid the consensus star and get extra draft capital.

[zambonir]

Right or wrong - and many thought it was wrong - obviously they wanted Luchanko. The third-rounder was just there for them to get instead of taking him at 12 and letting Minnesota have their guy for nothing. .

Some didn't want them to take Michkov either, that still took some decisiveness.

Still not sure Brent Flahr is the guy draft-wise - he was with Fletcher for almost 15 years - but it's also hard to tell given both the '21 and '22 first-round picks went so wrong (which is to say they got nothing either time in the end) before Briere even took over.

[jimbomill]

Some didn't want them to take Michkov either

I was hoping against hope that they'd get Michkov, somehow, someway. When he was announced as our pick, I was joyful, thinking maybe we've turned the corned!

[zambonir]

For sure, there was so much worry that Montreal would take him but a lot of mocks had him going to the Caps.

[Squire]

Just my opinion but they didn't love Luchanko as much as they were scared to deal with Cutter Gauthier's agent again who was repping Zeev Buium.

[zambonir]

Ah, interesting. But if that's the case that seems more like realism than fear. Still an indictment of the Flyers, but more for whatever they screwed up with Gauthier and Overhardt. I don't know that trying to force their hand would have been courageous given how the system works (versus baseball where Boras was always trying to cheat it). I doubt this agent has a grudge against the Flyers though, still think the team is probably to equally to blame for whatever went wrong - it's crazy we don't know, but if there was info that made the team look better than Gauthier they would have leaked it by now - in which case they are also the ones holding the grudge.