The New Unending Flyers thread

Austinfan 2024-03-15 14:40:20 UTC #663

To be fair, they were projected to be a bottom five team before the season, as much as they've improved, the talent simply isn't there. It's not that they need to add a bunch of superstars, as some suggest, rather, just some solid players to fill out the lines and D-pairs. But I don't think Briere can do that next season and they may take a step backwards.

I expect Briere to buyout Peterson, Atkinson and Johansen, that will free up $10M in 2024-25 cap room, plus Ellis' $6M LTIR (which he won't use unless needed, b/c he can accumulate cap room for the TDL by keeping Ellis off the LTIR).

But almost no one in LHV is NHL ready who hasn't been brought up, they don't see much in Lycksell, Allison gone, Laczynski will be 27. Desnoyers (22), Tuomaala (21), Avon (21), Gendron (21), Grans (22), Samson (21) will return for another AHL season. Andrae (22) will get a shot in camp as will Rizzo (23) if he goes pro. McDonald (22) will probably return to college, same with Kaplan, Bump, Bonk, Barkey should return to the CHL. Kolosov will be the starting AHL goalie.

Farabee - Frost - Tippett
Foerster - Couts - TK
Cates - Rizzo? - Brink
Deslauriers - Poehling - Hathaway
do they trade Laughton this summer? Sign/trade for a young center like they did with Poehling last summer?

York - Sanheim
Seeler - Drysdale
Zamula - Risto
Andrae - Attard

zambonir 2024-03-15 15:00:24 UTC #664

Yeah I am certainly glad they didn't try to do more as deadline buyers and it will help if Seeler comes back. But losing both Drysdale and Risto while also trading Walker may still prove fatal. I do think it's too bad they couldn't find another goalie. The fact that they gave up something for Johnson instead of that I guess says how much they knew the d-man weren't coming back. And while Drysdale is not a finished product he theoretically would be helping the PP (while also being part of the really bad PP to this point)

Hey, if they actually fall out they will be in the lottery, albeit not with many shots.

I never know what you mean when you type "TDL" AF. Not really a thing (unless you're talking about Transportation, Distribution and Logistics or To-Do Lists) and should technically be "TD" if you must abbreviate).

Austinfan 2024-03-15 15:29:28 UTC #665

TDL = trade deadline. The key with LTIR is if you use it, you can't accumulate cap room during the season for use at the TDL. So Ellis becomes a potential slush fund that you use only if needed..
During the summer, no LTIR but you can be 10% above the cap until the next season starts.
So his money doesn't impact summer moves, but gives them the option of using it if the right opportunity presents itself.

zambonir 2024-03-15 15:49:53 UTC #666

There is concern right now that Johansen is injured, in which case he can't be bought out. Though that may also lead to the Flyers filing a grievance.

There was also chatter about this being connected to Gauthier since they have the same agent. Roundly denied, but they are probably not in love with each other.

Docs 2024-03-15 17:05:43 UTC #667

Not being sarcastic, why would the Flyers want to buy them out? What is more valuable to the Flyers, the added cap space next year ($9.1m) or not carrying 4.5m over to 2025-2026? Plus, if they stash Johansen & Petersen in the AHL they save 2.2m in the cap.

Cap hits if they don't buy out:
Atkinson - 2024-25 - 5.875m
Johansen - 2024-25 - 4m
Petersen - 2024-25 - 3.85m
Total - 13.725m

Cap hits if they do buy out:
Atkinson 2024-25 - 1.96, 2025-2026 - 1.96
Johansen 2024-25 - 1.333, 2025-2026 - 1.33
Petersen - 2024-25 - 1.28, 2025-2026 - 1.28
Total - 4.57m in 2024-25, 4.57m in 2025-26

Posed as a serious question - would the purpose be to free up space to then try to acquire more draft picks to take on more salary in those years?

zambonir 2024-03-15 17:25:01 UTC #668

Yeah, probably that. agreed, the space in '25-'26 is worth more.

I still have a hard time writing off Atkinson too (but if they do he could also be sent to AHL).

Aquapong 2024-03-15 20:19:49 UTC #669

Yea I’d just bite the bullet and get these guys off the books for 2026. Atkinson can be used as a healthy scratch body. Currently the UFA class for 2025-6 looks better than 2024-5 and maybe we’ll be in a position to make a splash.

zambonir 2024-03-15 20:59:11 UTC #670

I'm sure Briere will be busy. There are scenarios where he could also take a usable body on a bad contract in exchange for one of these guys. Or where Johansen is a usable body for another team if the Flyers take something back (and add a pick).

It will be a busy draft night.

Austinfan 2024-03-15 21:55:41 UTC #671

They'll have a lot of excess space in 2025-26, and like baseball, it's "use it or lose it," b/c you can't roll it over like the NFL.
So the $5.3M in 2025-26 has far less value than $9M in 2024-25 (Peterson has an odd contract structure, buyout costs $1M next year and $2M the following year).

Extra cap room next seasons allows Briere to avoid putting Ellis on LTIR to start the season, so he can accumulate more cap room for the TDL and use Ellis as a "break glass if needed" cap slush fund. Cap room can be used to take on bad contracts like Peterson and Johansen in return for draft picks (they picked up a 5th for retaining on Hanifan, for example).

The other reason for the buyouts is to clear the contract slots, you're limited to 50 at any time, so if some college players come out, they sign a FA or two (like Poehling) and/or make a trade with multiple prospects coming back, they may need the room. Same if they want to sign an AHL plus veteran to a NHL contract (an enticement to sign to improve LHV and provide an insurance policy for the big club).

zambonir 2024-03-19 17:59:36 UTC #672

Had been reading about this earlier, that he was on practice line with Atkinson and Gurianov

Aquapong 2024-03-19 23:54:37 UTC #673

Never a good look to scratch the C.

zambonir 2024-03-20 00:29:16 UTC #674

I mean, you could make the case that it's kind of awesome, why should anyone be immune from it? I think the bigger issue is that it's not necessarily deserved. And it is rather curious and weird timing given he only just got it. It is certainly a message, but also feels a little panicky. Obviously a lot of tension between the fact that it would be fine if they didn't make the playoffs and the fact that it would still feel bad to squander a pretty solid playoff position.

xogfog 2024-03-20 03:58:22 UTC #675

Nice win by the Flyers tonight, beat the Leafs 4-3.

Aquapong 2024-03-20 11:13:31 UTC #676

I wish teams used the healthy scratch as a way to rest guys in a long physical season, but it’s viewed as a negative instead. In baseball, I’d rather have 150 games of the best of Harper than a lesser version of him or potentially no Harper or a run down one. Similarly, I rather have 75 games of the best of my best players in the NHL instead of begin tired and beat up.

zambonir 2024-03-20 13:20:20 UTC #677

Torts is a genius!

Pretty different from the NBA huh?

phillychuck 2024-03-20 13:48:12 UTC #678

So the coach benches Coots, and the Flyers somehow feel motivated by that? At least that's the narrative. Why would it be motivating for the coach to bench the team's captain?

Coots was honest when interviewed about it, saying he didn't know specificallly what Tortorella wanted him to do other than "play better." Seems like you can't play better in the skybox...

Coots is coming off of two years of being injured, maybe Torts shouldn't have been riding him so hard all season playing him 20 minutes/game?

zambonir 2024-03-20 14:16:09 UTC #679

It's a dumb narrative. But Aqua is right. In baseball you'd always see Charlie and Girardi and Thomson talk about just wanting to give someone a "blow," even when they aren't slumping (but when they are slumping they still don't spin it as punitive). And when Torts actually benches someone for something specific he usually isn't shy about it (or at least acknowledges a specific reason existed that he doesn't care to discuss).

The team's second-best paid forward after Couts is already a healthy scratch all the time!

Probably true about riding him too hard though I doubt Couturier would have liked it if he'd only played 16 minutes a night (and doesn't like how little he's playing now). Never mind the motivation, he's been playing poorly enough that for one night maybe the line-up actually was better without him. I also think it's totally okay to bench the captain - everyone is equal, letter or not. It's just funny that he only just got made captain, and during a stretch where he already wasn't playing well.

The center is sixth on the Flyers with 36 points (11 goals, 25 assists) in 64 games. However, he has one goal in his past 27 games, and his ice time has dipped to 14:10 per game in his past 10, down from 19:25 in his first 54.

phillychuck 2024-03-20 14:22:24 UTC #680

z, I see your points.

I read this on another board, which I thought stated things well:

"I feel bad for Couturier. I mean the dude played no hockey for nearly 2 years and they ran him out there every night with big minutes because they lack talent at center. Of course he's going to fall off a cliff.

Maybe if they hadn't rode him like they were trying to break him he wouldn't have broke?"

The "let's win this for our benched captain" narrative is worse than silly...it's a big part of why Torts always loses the locker room wherever he coaches after a while.

zambonir 2024-03-20 15:18:40 UTC #681

I think that also might be a false narrative (even though it's one I also would believe). Torts coached Tampa for seven years, NYR for five years, Columbus for six years. It was only Vancouver that went bad immediately, and they've had four coaches in 10 years since.

I guess I didn't even see it as the team rallying around their captain, more just a wake-up call for everyone to be more focused and committed again. Of course the "win one to stick it to the coach" dynamic is nothing new (see also, 1980 Phillies).

This article specifically says Couts is unhappy with his reduced ice time, since Torts hasn't talked to him about it. That's bad, but also shows he would not have been happy to play less in the first place.

(I gotta say, reading it, in full that Couts' agent doesn't come off any better than Torts, especially by going to the media.)

Docs 2024-03-20 15:56:36 UTC #682

This is how I see it too, it shows everyone that not even the captain is immune and anyone can be held accountable for their play.