The New Unending Flyers thread

[zambonir]

Hart is gone and isn't coming back, certainly not this year even if by some miracle he’s acquitted. The Flyers could be fishing in the trade market for a goalie. Whether that’s a long term starter, co-starter with Errson, or just a better back up, they could use one.

The trade deadline is March 8th. What happens in the next month will decide whether we’re selling on guys like Walker and Seeler or looking for another goalie to bolster our depth there. Other than that, I expect us to stand firm unless an offer we can’t refuse is made for TK or Atkinson. I’d be pretty shocked to see a big acquisition.

Per lawyers, Carter Hart charged with sexual assault in connection with 2018...

One expert has already said it's unlikely the sexual assault case will be resolved until 2026, but almost certainly not until before next season. What the NHL decides to do in the meantime also an important factor but the big question is, do the Flyers make him a qualifying offer for next season? That would be $4.479 million, but I assume if he's suspended or on leave it wouldn't be paid or count against the cap.

Hard to justify giving up anything of value for a back-up goalie that would actually be an upgrade on what they've got (if not Peterson, hope Sandstrom somehow goes an unexpected run, we've seen it before).

To me between the Gauthier trade and the Hart situation it's a sign to sell sell sell, even if that hurts team chemistry short-term. But, they've got a month to see how it goes. This story floats the idea of trading Seeler and then re-signing him, but that so rarely happens.

Examining which Flyers could be moved before the trade deadline

[zambonir]

Bettman taking a pretty timid stance here, IMO. I wonder if that will change after the press conference, though he already has access to the NHL's own completed investigation and the details were also in the civil suit.

Anyway, for now he says nobody will be suspended and everyone will be paid, I think with the assumption that they are all going to remain on leave the rest of the season. After that they become free agents and he also seems to be assuming they won't try to come back and play until the case is resolved. But both of those factors seems more complicated to me. Teams still have to make them offers, and if the players are really innocent (which they are also legally presumed to be) and the legal process takes more than a year wouldn't they want to play?

It would probably be a bad PR move for any of them to try to so but it also seems like a bad PR move for the league not to do anything. It would also be more fair to the teams actually - suspend them indefinitely and then if they are not convicted the current contract/qualifying offer is back in play for however much of next season (or the next one) is left.

And if they are guilty and never play in the league again it's a bad look to have allowed them to be paid for the rest of this season.

NHL won't interfere with Hockey Canada probe

[zambonir]

All five players were not present but it was also a Zoom hearing anyway. Not a big surprise here but next hearing date is April 30 so that pretty much formally closes the door on any of these guys playing again this season.

Flyers goalie Carter Hart not present during first court hearing; Canadian...

Still think they should be suspended. I guess in MLB you do get paid while you're on administrative leave and then you get suspended and lose your pay retroactively so in some ways it would be a matter of semantics. But the NHL doesn't have a policy of any kind specific to criminal conduct. I suppose attempting to void the contracts would probably take as long to resolve as the case (and would be easier to argue if they're convicted, though that's not actually necessary).

[bkeich]

I feel like I am the orator of doom and gloom this month... Between the Sixers bad situation and my sense that the article I read that maybe the Flyers bubble has burst.

The Flyers have been shockingly successful this year, I admit I was wrong. I honestly feared they would struggle to win 10. They have far outpaced that, even with the recent slide.

The question is do you sell or buy? The plan was always to sell, and I think they have to keep with that especially since possibly our biggest trade chip (Carter Hart) suddenly turned into a value-less commodity that honestly we need to rid ourselves of somehow or face protests (they may have already done that by non-rostering him).

Other guys on the way out? Will be sad, but I think if they dont trade away their veteran now and try and get in the playoffs we are just repeating the disaster of the last decade. They need a tear down, was sad to see 'G' go will be maybe even worse if they unload Coots, but you have to build up some talent, even if the target is down the timeline. Hopefully my fear that we were looking at making a playoff run in 2032 was a little too pessimistic

[bkeich]

I suppose attempting to void the contracts would probably take as long to resolve as the case (and would be easier to argue if they're convicted, though that's not actually necessary).

We probably need someone with legal experience to step in for this question... Arent the players in violation of their contract because they are not showing up for the games? I get fired if I end up in jail and therefor cannot do my job. Same for these contracts? I guess it depends what they say in them. My HR Professional Wife would say that they are in "Abandonment of Job", which of course is not their choice, but still they have abandon their jobs, therefore can be fired. When you have a contract like this I assume the contract rules what happens.

Imagine the ISSUE if some guy in Prison is making millions of dollars a year. I guess he would be everyones best friend around "commissary" time More than a few movies have broached this topic

[zambonir]

No, the team willingly granted them this leave of absence and the league commissioner explicitly said he's fine with them being paid. What they are potentially in violation of is the contract's morals clause, which does not require a conviction by any means, but it's up to the team to pursue that.

None of them will have a dime after this season as they will no longer be under contract. Teams might make the qualifying offers but no contracts will actually get signed until this is resolved.

And I think the Flyers are still fine. They are not buyers. And they are not going to sell Couts or TK or Laughton unless it's an offer they can't refuse. Nor Tippett or Sanheim or anyone young, obviously. But everyone else is on the table.

They will likely still make the playoffs if they don't unload too many parts. But if they can't get out of the pre All-Star spiral that's okay too, just sell more! But some of those bigger decisions aren't deadline moves.

[Aquapong]

I think the only truly valuable trade chip where we don’t have to retain money, take back a bad contract, etc is TK. I’m not giving him up unless it’s an offer you can't refuse.

I think the best thing Danny can do at the deadline is nothing, other than searching for a back up goalie. Errson may have had a good start to the year, but he’s not going to last being ridden like a rented mule. You’ve got to start your back up every few games and he’s got to be someone who will actually give your team a chance to win. Say nothing of Errson getting injured…then the season is really in trouble.

[Austinfan]

Couts has little value with that contract, same with Sanheim.
Laughton has value, but team taking him will pay 3x3 from age 30-32, that will reduce his return to some extent.
Risto 3x5 after this season, so unlikely to be TDL deal, probably dealt in summer of 2025 when 2x5 left.
Seeler, Walker and Staal on one year deals.
Hathaway on 2 year deal, but salary isn't prohibitive with cap going up next year, would add some snarl.

[zambonir]

I believe Sanheim actually has a no-trade clause. But he still has value. He's playing better and he's still only 27. Plenty of teams would take him if the Flyers were tanking (and one almost did last year).

"If they were tanking" also applies to Couts. Obviously they are not so his greatest value is to the Flyers.

If they can get a first-rounder+ for Laughton they probably do it. That's one where a team doing something stupid at the deadline helps the Flyers more than an off-season situation.

[Docs]

The question is do you sell or buy?

Sell.

[phillychuck]

Sell*2.

[Aquapong]

Hold and get the kids playoff time hopefully.

[zambonir]

They're gonna trade at least two of the three d-men. If that's all they do that's okay. If they trade both Walker and Seeler that will weaken the team but also challenge more "kids" to step up. They could also trade both those guys but hold on to Staal, since he's not worth much and might be a good mentor. But he probably wants to get a better shot at the Cup too.

Atkinson would the other more obvious guy to trade.

[zambonir]

The Devils, Flyers and Flames will all receive salary cap relief for their respective players, an NHL source told ESPN's Greg Wyshynski on Monday.

Police: New info reopened hockey assault case

[Aquapong]

I was going to say Staal already got the Cup on the Hurricanes but looked him up. Wrong Staal. Too many of these guys running around.

The rest of the season starts tonight.

[zambonir]

yup there's three of them and I believe he's the only one who hasn't

[VoteForKalas]

Yup, Eric won it with the Canes and Jordan with the Pens. Marc I believe was on the Rangers team that got to the Cup, but lost.

[Aquapong]

The Flyers are reportedly looking for a suitor for Walker with their price being a 1st round pick. That seems high for Walker, but no harm in seeing if someone is desperate. I’d take a 2nd rounder for him. Generally I want to hold, but that’s probably an asset flip we shouldn’t pass up. I suppose if we get a decent offer on Walker, Seeler, or Staal, we shouldn’t pass it up. Attard should be ready, right?

Looking at the Phantoms…Brink has 3 goals and an assist in 5 games. If he’s mad at the demotion he’s taking it out on the other teams. Meanwhile Lycksell is just getting scratched. Samu Tuaamola is having a good season. We can stack the right wing and left D prospects, just not left wings and right D. Kind of disappointed with Desnoyers. He looked good last season and has fallen off quite a bit this year. He looked good the couple of times I saw him in Hershey last year. He looked fast and dangerous.

[VoteForKalas]

Andrae and Attard both should get NHL time to see if they can stick and keep developing.

Besides Andrae & Attard, you have York, Drysdale and Zamula that need to continue to play and be evaluated/developed.

And have Sanheim and Risto signed long term with likely unmovable contracts.

Staal should definitely be moved for whatever is offered. He is not playing, he is here for "vet depth" and, as we know, it is hard to lead from the bench.

Walker has played well, d-men have value at the deadline especially with his experience. Ask for a 1st, absolutely, try to maximize the asset. Settle for a 2nd and/or another player who fits and go from there. Walker should be moved.

Seeler is the one that Torts and the FO seem to love the most and thus will be the truest test of their commitment to the rebuild. He is cheap and plays hard. If they want to extend him for 1 year or max 2 years at a cheap rate, I would not love it, but it would also not be the end of the world. I'd rather move him for what you can get now which I think is probably his peak.

[Austinfan]

All comes down to offers and cost of resigning.
Someone offers a 2nd for Seeler, nice knowing ya, a 5th, well, what are you asking for in a new contract.