The New New Unending Flyers thread

[Squire]

Flyers signed Tyson Foerster for 2 years at 3.75M per year (7.5m total)

[Docs]

if Rossi is available at a decent price (whether trade or money or both) he's worth considering, if he's not, he's not.

I was just going to respond with something like this. Need to factor in the contract value, length and assets going out to decide if its worth it or not. If Minnesota prefers players to draft pick compensation, or 2025 draft picks over 2026 draft picks, they could trade Rossi's rights to another team. Would I be willing to trade the Edmonton pick for his rights? Absolutely! Would i want the Flyers to sign him to a $14M/year offer and give up their 2026 1st, 2nd & 3rd? Nope.

Can multiple teams sign players to offers sheets, or is it a one-at-a-time thing?

Not sure if I understand the question correctly, because teams and players are plural. Each player may sign one contract. Each team cannot sign a RFA if they do not have the compensation asset available. One article that I read said Minnesota could not sign Knies because they traded their 2nd round pick already. If you sign someone to an offer sheet, it locks up the appropriate picks and you cannot sign another RFA. However other teams can sign other players.

If a player signs an offer sheet with another team, the original team can either match the offer and retain the player, or decline to match and receive the draft picks as compensation.

[zambonir]

I mean if, say, the Flyers and the Rangers both wanted to sign Rossi to an offer sheet, could they. Technically the answer is no, since it's a binding contract (and as you say a team can only extend it if they are eligible). But I think multiple teams can prepare an offer sheet for the same player, and he can pick which one he's going to accept.

I ask merely because I'm skeptical there is going to be a bidding war for Rossi salary-wise, be it via offer sheet or what a team is willing to pay him with a new deal. There might be a bit of a bidding war for a trade, but I don't think any team trying to trade for him has to worry about him being particularly hard (or expensive) to sign. It will be the same choice of bridge deal vs. long-term that the Flyers just made with Foerster (albeit at a higher price) and will have to for York. If a team gives him 7-8 years they will be saving money vs. what they are afraid they'd have to pay to keep him after the bridge deal.

[Austinfan]

Briere should consider Rossi like every other option.
Keep in mind his 17.6 Sh% will probably regress, and the assumption that he'll linearly improve is probably questionable.

He played 1/3 of his minutes with Kaprizov and was better with than without him, but Kaprizov was the same.
So one reason Minn doesn't want to pay him is concern he won't be as productive in a 2C or 3C role without a superstar next to him.

[Docs]

All 32 teams may extend an offer to a RFA, assuming they all meet the requirements to make an offer (cap space, compensation picks, etc). The player may only sign one of those offers, and the clock to match doesn't start until the player signs the offer. Same process for any free agent for that part of the deal. There is an extra consideration which is will the original team match this offer. If you think they will, you might offer more money to discourage the original team from matching.

[Docs]

Briere should consider Rossi like every other option.

Agreed. I do not know what the Flyers should do with him or anyone else, I am interested in their plan & execution this summer and hope that they get good value for the choices they make (draft picks, trades and/or free agent signings).

[bigegypt0417]

Sometimes it's impossible to follow your 1 plus 1 equals cantaloupe logic.

He's 23...you have no basis for an argument of regression....

[Austinfan]

Rossi was aided by spending 1/3 of his time with a superstar on his wing, and his 17.6% shooting percentage is probably unsustainable. So if he were a Flyer, he might be a 35 points ES scorer - marginal 2C production and his lack of size makes him vulnerable against bigger centers. So what's that worth?

One reason to be concerned is his splits from last season:
52g 18-28 46 +18
30g 6-8 14 -15
Given the break, doubtful he wore down. Did league adjust?
What did happen is Eriksson Ek, their 1C, was injured after the break, so Rossi got more attention.

He's a solid player, question is what exactly is his upside?

[bigegypt0417]

Again...that accounts for a third...there is no basis for your conclusion of regression.

His upside is undetermined...just like your conclusion that a 23 year old will regress.

[VoteForKalas]

Again, the team that knows him best appears not only willing but ready to let him go. Not a ringing endorsement.

[zambonir]

But I think that's because they have two better centers than him. We have zero.

[Austinfan]

They have Erisson Ek, Hartman and Gaudreau.
Not exactly murderer's row.

I'd just do my homework if I'm Briere, have an intern do cutouts, and have your pro scouts review and determine why he fell off so drastically down the homestretch.

When you're talking in terms of trading serious assets and spending $50M on an extension, buyer beware.

[zambonir]

When you're talking in terms of trading serious assets and spending $50M on an extension, buyer beware.

But nobody's talking about that. He might get a three-year $20 million offer at most, which would also cost a 1st and a 3rd. You give up less than that in a trade so Minnesota doesn't lose him for nothing. You could also offer him a giant one-year deal and still have his rights after that (though if it's too big that would add in a 2nd).

He's not a UFA until 2029, and he's 23. The risk is not that much higher than drafting a player, except you get a someone who can play in the NHL now (which Luchanko likely won't for another year) and 2-3 years to find out if he's a guy.

[bigegypt0417]

So...Bryce Harper? Shohei Otani?

Sorry...because you decide to let someone walk away in free agency or accept a first and third for a player doesn't mean what you think it means.

Players walk away from teams all the time.

[bigegypt0417]

I don't know how to accurately describe it but it's the sports equivalent to a "strawman"

Throw out a ridiculous number and use that as an argument to be cheap and pretend you can build a champion with the draft and old FA's.

[phillychuck]

This philosophical discussion is not the point with Rossi, it’s how the team evaluates his ability level. If it were McDavid the price is cheap, whatever it is. There are lots of hints Rossi might not be worth the cost--how he’s been used, his own team’s reluctance to resign him, his size, and the likely regression of his stats have all been cited. If you are going to spend money and assets I’d like a more high-probability-of-success return myself. Opinions will vary, of course.

[bigegypt0417]

The Wild have a few players that they are going to need to sign and not a whole lot of cap space to make that happen.

You can't in 2025 use a teams reluctance to sign players as a "sign" there is a problem. Free agency is part of sports.

As for the conversation of regression...there is no actual basis to think a 23 year old who has progressed year over year is going to regress. it's an argument made up to make a justification.

Take Rossi out of the conversation and it stays the same.

You don't like the player...cool.

But you have nothing measurable other then size to make the argument and he's shown he's both able to score AND stay healthy.

[zambonir]

It all depends how you define "cost." It's not a debate between Rossi and nothing, it's a debate between Rossi and other available centers. Any UFA is going to make far more money for far more years, whether that's a younger mega player like Sam Bennett or an aging vet who you might sign for a just a couple of years to improve the teams short-term fortune. A "better" RFA is going to take a bigger offer sheet (especially if his team is more likely to want to keep him). And a player who's already under contract will cost more in trade.

The likelihood of an offer sheet is still almost zero in any case. Only one other player besides the two guys last year has changed teams on one since 2021, and nobody did between 2008 and 2021. And the guys the Blues signed were cheap (a 2nd for one and a 3rd for the other).

Until the draft happens and we see what the Flyers do with their other two picks it's hard to really guess what might happen anyway. Certainly if they trade one of them into 2026 it suggests they want to leave an offer sheet option open. But Rossi is still more likely to be acquired via trade, whichever team gets him.

But BE, when AF says "regress' he doesn't mean "decline." He is arguing his numbers suggest he's not as talented as he might seem and aren't sustainable, not that he's going to become a worse player in the short-term. Of course at his age he could also still become a better player, or have better numbers on a better line (like with Matvei Michkov, for instance).

[phillychuck]

I’m not part of the argument about philosophy. I do not like him as a player. So my opinion is different, that is the way the world works. That’s why there are hundreds of flavors of ice cream. However, I do understand the arguments against him that are at least indicative of a limited player. If he were better, the Wild wouldn’t be prioritizing signing other players over him, they’d find a way to keep him. They wouldn’t be using him in limited minutes as a 4C in the playoffs. His advanced metrics show his shooting percentage to be unsustainable, which means that is likely to regress. And he’s not getting any bigger. Those are objective reasons we use in discussions to support our subjective opinion.

If the Flyers sign him Monday I’ll find a way to love him by Tuesday, though...

[bigegypt0417]

But BE, when AF says "regress' he doesn't mean "decline." He is arguing his numbers suggest he's not as talented as he might seem and aren't sustainable, not that he's going to become a worse player in the short-term. Of course at his age he could also still become a better player, or have better numbers on a better line (like with Matvei Michkov, for instance).

Rossi could fall off a cliff tomorrow in terms of production.

the reasoning which is basically he played a third of his shifts with a good player seems to sell the idea that if on the flyers, they couldn't do the same.

The reports out there are that the flyers aren't really interested in what the Wild want...which seems to be a late first and Forester.

But that could change.