The New New Unending Flyers thread

[Austinfan]

I'd expect them to let Marner walk, sign Tavares to a 3-4 year extension, and take the cap room and shore up the defense. And maybe move out a few players who don't fit with Berube.

The core is too good, and locked into contracts, that they'd be willing to rebuild.
Maybe reload, if a new GM was given permission.

[zambonir]

They won't get a new GM just yet. Will be like the Flyers and Torts, if they hire a new president he'll take a year to see what Treliving and Berube are about. Or Treliving will actually get Shanahan's job and may have his own ideas. He already had to break up the Flames but the Leafs aren't the Flames.

[zambonir]

I'm rooting for #17 regardless but does the ECF affect the Flyers' picks at all? Edmonton would pick higher than either the loser or the winner right?

[Docs]

Not entirely. The ECF loser will pick 29, the WCF loser will pick 30, the finals loser will pick 31 and the cup champion will pick 32. The reason the conference losers are locked into place is because both west finalists have better records than both east finalists.

[zambonir]

Well, that's still a yes. If Edmonton loses it doesn't matter who wins the East and if Edmonton wins it also doesn't matter who wins the East (only who wins the Cup).

As a fan, my worst outcome would be a rematch because I would want the Oilers to lose but don't really want to root for Florida. A Carolina-Edmonton final I can just root for the Canes both for its own asked and for the small Flyers benefit.

[Docs]

Edmonton would pick higher than either the loser or the winner right?

This part didn’t make sense to me

[zambonir]

They would pick higher than either the loser or the winner of the Eastern Conference Final (if Edmonton also lost its conference final). And this is the last round where regular season record could have mattered.

[Austinfan]

Flyers have #22 and 30-32. Instead of #24 and #25, which is where they started before the POs.
The real killer is picking #6 instead of #4, but they should still get a good player.

36, #40, #45, #48, #68.

Lot's of ammunition to move up/down/out.

[zambonir]

Latest Athletic mock has Desnoyers going 4th and Flyers taking O'Brien (Hagens 5th). But also one-time Top 10 projected D Logan Hensler with the EDM pick at 25 (the mock is not updated to current playoff results).

[Docs]

Well, that's still a yes

They would pick higher than either the loser or the winner of the Eastern Conference Final (if Edmonton also lost its conference final)

The way you are saying it is confusing (for me) by having any reference to the winner in there. The loser of the ECF is guaranteed to pick before the Edmonton pick. If Edmonton loses, their pick is guaranteed to be before the winners pick. And as such, to your original point (which i understand you already understand) - the ECF result has no bearing on the Flyers pick and we can root for Brind’Amour guilt free!

[Dirk41]

Really would like the Flyers to seriously go for Marner. He doesn't cost anything but cap space and is better than anything they have/better than the maximized potential of anyone on the team who isn't MM. Use the other pieces for a C

[Squire]

I am really hoping the Flyers end up with Hagens or Frondell but I'm not that optimistic about it.

[Austinfan]

I absolutely don't want Marner, he's going to get 7x13 deal.
This isn't baseball with a soft cap, the NHL has a hard cap and you can't move cap money forward like the NFL.

Marner is a very good player who is going to get overpaid as an elite player, but he can't carry a team.
He'll add some scoring (not as much as you think outside of Toronto playing with high level linemates, Matthews and Knies) but he'll also make it harder to fill out a roster.

I think Briere wants to build a team designed to go deep into the playoffs, not win the President's Cup (best regular season record). And if you've watched NHL playoffs, refs swallow their whistles, it's more physical, the checking is tighter, etc.

Marner has played 70 PO games, prorated to 82 games, at ES 13-32 45.
On the PP 1-26 27, that is, scoring primarily by passing the puck to other players, good if you're a defenseman, not so good if you're a forward.

If we were talking Crosby at 28, I'd pay the man without hesitation, b/c Crosby made his linemates better
Crosby from 28-30 in the POs, 60g 15-29 44 at ES, PP 8-19 27
So Sidney did in 60 games what Marner averages in 82 games, and is a center.

[zambonir]

I'm sure I actually was confused or phrased it for poorly. The simplest part is probably the fact that nothing happens from here on out can affect the Colorado pick, whereas the second round could (and did).

I'll admit I'm curious to see if the Flyers will go after Marner or someone like him, I just don't know if he's the right guy/time/contract. Broad Street Hockey makes a decent case, though there's also a case against it due to too many RH wings.

In the end I'm sure Briere is going to sign or trade for six players over the next 2-3 years but not sure it will be him/now. The rhetoric around Tocchet's signing has been fairly, "stay the course."

Why Flyers should sign Mitch Marner this offseason

[bigegypt0417]

Not sure this would be the impact of Marner but certainly makes them more likely to make the playoffs...

Flyers' Rick Tocchet Hire Is a Home Run if it Lands Mitch Marner - The Hockey...

[Austinfan]

I'd make the argument that Marner is a luxury item for a team with bigger needs.

1) they finished the season with three solid lines, maybe not a true first line, but both the Couts and Cates line were solid 2nd lines, Cates line had 4th best xGF% despite being matched against top six lines. It's a SSS, but the Pelletier - Poehling - Tippett looked good. They need another top line, but the key isn't a RW but finding a center to anchor it.

First is the draft, do they end up with Martone or Desnoyers or Hagens or ???
Any center drafted won't arrive until 2026.
Jett is a question, should be in AHL but choice is CHL and a black hole in Guelph or sheltered role in Philly.

Marner won't solve any of these issues.
In 2025, a veteran center patch (3 year deal?) would buy time for Jett and a draft pick to eventually take over at center, move Couts to LW, etc.

2) the defense needs to be rebuilt, right now they have depth, down to LHV, but not the right mix.
York - Sanheim
Zamula - Risto
Seeler - Drysdale
worked well, but Risto will start on IR and is 31, Seeler is 32.
Andrae - Zamula and Seeler - Sanheim did not look good.
Bonk may start in LHV but should finish next season in Philly.
Grans, McDonald, Samson???

So draft/FA/trade is probable, does Sanheim stay at RHD with Bonk and Drysdale. Who are best matchups at LHD?

[bigegypt0417]

I'd make the argument that Marner is a luxury item for a team with bigger needs.

Talent is not a luxury item on a team lacking...talent.

Regardless of the draft.

[zambonir]

Well, it's true that if the Flyers are going to spend $10 million + it should probably be on a center. And that they might prefer to trade for a younger cheaper (if less surefire) option. Vets on shorter deals also an option. They will probably do something from every column.

But if you get a Marner, all of the other wings and the centers become better.

[bigegypt0417]

If you can get him to agree to come here...it seems to help with the road to credibility.

Not the exact same thing but kind of like Bryce Harper coming here.

[Austinfan]

But they don't get much better.

Marner is playing on a line with Matthews and Knies, we don't have equivalent players to match with him.
And we're talking 7x13M or so, which is a lot of cap room with a hard cap.

So you're not going to get full value from him at ES until you upgrade the center position.
Same on the PP, without a PP QB and a sniper, he won't be as productive here as in Toronto.

He's the kind of player you add in 3 years when Jett and the center we probably draft this summer are ready to carry the load.