The New New Unending Flyers thread

[zambonir]

Well shoot what if they go on a little interim coach run? And is it Shaw or Lappy? (Or hey, they could promote Thompson, that would be one way to get someone else to run the PP.)

You could see how once the losing got really bad and the questions about his future started how it might end up this way. He was sort of saying the right things but also saying he didn't really want to be doing it.

[phillychuck]

Shaw taking over. Please don't go on a run.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GnDJWCbXcAAjZKH?format=jpg&name=small

[Docs]

If they were truly committed to the tank they would have left the position vacant for a few weeks while they searched for the “right” interim coach

[jimbomill]

If they were truly committed to the tank they would have left the position vacant for a few weeks while they searched for the “right” interim coach

I agree. Still, I can't recall who else was considered back before they hired Torts, but he was my least favorite. Most every coach gets let go, eventually to team performance, or, because he has worn out his welcome. Torts is in the latter category and one who I'd not ever want as a coach for my team.

[zambonir]

Well, they could do it one assistant short which would stretch him thin running both the team and the D. But I doubt it.

I would say Torts really did kind of engineer his own exit here (Frank Seravalli wondered if he was the first coach to fire himself with his last post-game presser, though of course he did not do that because he's getting the money).

I also do wonder if we might see some unexpected injuries, curious healthy scratches or a whole lot of back-up goalies down the stretch, and if Torts wasn't up for that either.

I hope they make an interesting hire and not just another guy who has coached six teams. I think Torts did a good job and if they'd been the same old stupid Flyers probably would have had them in the playoffs last year and this year (though this year they didn't really have the cap room to make the team better). It was always a little curious that they hung onto him, but he filled the role the new regime wanted him to (plus it saved them $8 million to keep him for two years).

[phillychuck]

I wonder if the Flyers could go after his money based on him saying he wasn't interested in coaching this team. They won't, but I bet a good lawyer could claim he basically resigned.

[zambonir]

If it was truly an ugly ending they could - and then just settle, a court case would not be desired by anyone - but I don't think it really was. I would imagine after that press conference Briere just said, if you want out you can be out, we're not going to extend you anyway).

Also, they will be able to recoup all the $ if he takes another job (or at least most of it if he makes less).

[Austinfan]

To me it seemed like Torts was with the program intellectually, but emotionally he's too competitive to handle being outnumbered game after game. This was his third season, and at least two more losing seasons ahead of him.

It also put to rest the nonsense that this was Torts' team, Briere has been in control, he just never made a big deal of it, always talking about consensus.

People forget Briere played 15 seasons, for 5 different teams, from tanks to the SC Finals.
Saw lots of HCs and GMs do good and bad things.
He wasn't a star player who played for one team (Yzerman, Sakic), he's been through the wringer.

Undersized forward who had to work his way into the NHL, was up and down his first few seasons. Spent parts of three seasons in the AHL, wasn't a full-time starter until he was 24. Played in the "clutch and grab" era and excelled under pressure, one of the best PO scorers in NHL history. So he's going to be patient but demanding with prospects.

I think he had no problem with Torts' tough love, and he got rid of Frost and Farabee b/c he didn't think they had "true grit."
This may have been a "Mercy killing," as much as Torts has mellowed, he could handle only so much losing.
I don't think the basic approach will change, maybe a "kinder, gentler machine gun hand."

[zambonir]

This was his third season, and at least two more losing seasons ahead of him.

I don't think that's really the case. For one thing he wasn't under contract for more than one. So he was probably done this off-season anyway.

And what kind of coach are they going to hire to have a losing team for two more years? Shaw? The new coach is going to be given more talent than this team currently has and will be expected to get this team back over .500 and in contention, if not in the playoffs, next season. Actual playoff berth in '26-'27. They have a ton of $ to spend now and even more for that year (when Atkinson, Laughton and Hayes come off the books).

[Austinfan]

Briere has signalled he's in no hurry to add free agents, nor should he be.
I'll still contend 2027-28 is their target date.

Next season:
Right now no one on LHV other than maybe Grans ready for NHL
Bonk, Barkey, Bjarnason in LVH to start the season, Murchison AHL level talent, Sotheran?
Ciernak getting tryout for AHL job
Jett will get a long look in AHL to see how he's progressed
Bump, Knuble. No word about Knuble, expect Bump to go pro after NCAA playoffs.

So some help by 2nd half, but not to start 2025-26.
No FA will make this team competitive next year, Briere more likely to trade for a young center.
I expect some short-term veteran patches to be signed.

2026-27:
Jett, Bonk, Barkey? Bump? 2025 top draft pick may all be starting.
Some LHV players may progress to where they push for bottom six jobs.
Maybe hit the FA market, but I think only if a player at the right age (26, 27) is available.

[bigegypt0417]

Briere has signalled he's in no hurry to add free agents, nor should he be.
I'll still contend 2027-28 is their target date.

This is essentially your philosophy on every sport...I used to think it was from the Giles era but as a cowboys fan...it seems to be more like the modern Jerry Jones philosophy...build through the draft and ignore free agency.

The flyers are not doomed to lose for the next two seasons...if they were, they wouldn't have been clearing the salary deck for the next two seasons.

There is no calendar...if you are a quality GM and talent evaluator...you strike when you have the chance.

[bkeich]

Not the build can finally begin. Torts was a disaster, between him taking his player complaints to the media and his obvious disinterest in his job his failures greatly exceed any good he did. Trying to find “his kinda players” was never going to happen, and it did not. Eventually everyone was going to find their way to his doghouse.

Get a HC that can build a team and with Briere hopefully we can build a team from this horror show. We have draft picks at least.

[zambonir]

He hasn't signaled that. He's aggressively cleared salary one year sooner than he had to and has a ton of trade assets. Plus he kept Risto. But let's just check back on July 5th or so. Possibly before as the coaching hire will also say a lot.

Still have no problem with the job Torts did. He just never would have had the job if the Flyers weren't still delusional in 2022, plus the people who made decisions for the team back then share Torts' personality.

[Austinfan]

Think it's now obvious Briere was calling the shots all along.
Briere is the one who got rid of Frost and Farabee, b/c they lacked "true grit."
The HC may change, but I think Briere's philosophical approach to team building won't.

My suspicion is the next HC will push a similar style of play, up tempo, aggressive forecheck, hard nosed.
Todd Nelson's name has come up, won 3 Calder Cups, last two back to back with Hershey, lost out the Caps job to Cadberry who preceeded him at Hershey before going to Toronto as an AC.

Nelson is a good communicator and teacher, but stresses the possession game and is big on analytics.

[Austinfan]

You should use free agency as the icing on the cake, not to make the cake.

[bigegypt0417]

Again...the stating of the obvious...your viewpoint seems to point to free agency being like using mayo on the cake.

Free agency is not the only use of money or assets.

It's the talent evaluation. Your model is contrary to that of organization that win on a regular basis.

Moneyball belongs in the same place as the sixers version of "the process"

in the dustbin.

[xogfog]

In all fairness, I think what Torts was saying when he said what he said was regarding the team that played the last few games, not the team as a whole. I thought the plan all along was that he would step down after this year and then join the organization, so his firing might be due to public perception of his comments and it put Briere in a situation where he had to fire him.

[Austinfan]

You sign different kinds of FAs at different points.

I expect Briere to sign a couple veterans this summer to short-term deals as patches b/c he won't want to rush prospects next season - and if you overpay on a one year "prove it deal" you can move the veteran at the TDL if a kid is pushing for his job.

And if a 25-26 year old falls into his lap at a reason price . . .

But top FAs are almost always overpays, so you don't want to do that until you're already a good team and the FA is the final piece. NHL has a hard cap, and unlike the NFL, you can't roll cap room forward, so you have to be careful not to blow up your cap. Overpay too early, and when you're competitive, you won't be able to extend all your key young players (Michkov will get an 8 year deal for $10+M in a few years if he continues to develop, for example)

[VoteForKalas]

Think it's now obvious Briere was calling the shots all along.

Briere, Jones and Torts were the power trio with the ultimate oversight of Dan Hilferty at Comcast.

Torts filled that veteran, respected coach role to balance out Briere and Jones' inexperience and provide the players the standard the organization wanted to set in place.

Now, Torts is out and not in the prettiest fashion. One suspects there has been strong debate and tension within the leadership for some part of this season that finally came to a head.

Was it Briere stepping forward as the main guy that rubbed Torts wrong? Was it that Torts wanted a quicker rebuild process than the other two? Were the players sick and tired of Torts' approach? Has the timetable of the rebuild changed? Was it just a normal timetable advanced by 9 games due to Torts' comments the other night? Does Briere and Jones (and Comcast) see the Flyers entering a new phase of the rebuild that requires a different type coach?

Briere will hold a presser tonight at 5 pm. He may be asked these questions and more by our intrepid local hockey media, but we'll never get the full story of what happened or why. I hope we get some clarity on the process and path to the future. Briere cannot deny this season has been disappointing, he should own that and give what detail he can about his vision moving forward. I think the Flyers owe the fans that.

Shaw becomes the interim coach. Good luck to him. Rocky Thompson should be gone with Torts (hopefully).

[Philsmania]

I only casually follow the Flyers and rarely chime in on this thread but I got the sense that when the Flyers hired Tortorella they still kinda/sorta convinced themselves that they were still contenders. Fletcher was the GM who hired him and the Three Old Wise Men handpicked by Snider (Clarke, Holmgren and Barber) still wielded power. I suspect Tortorella didn't entirely sign up for coaching through a rebuild but did as well as he could and was as much of a good soldier as he could be to a point. Now, I guess it's time to see if there's a coach who can develop with the team.