The Ended Flyers Thread

[zambonir]

Acquiring an available Flyer is either so simple that it could happen with seconds to spare before the deadline, or so complicated that it might not even be possible until the summer.

In other words they will take whatever they can get for the free agents and won't be able to move anyone else until the off-season, unless someone really surprises them with an offer.

[Docs]

The article seems like an excuse for Fletcher not having the skill set to do his job. Is it tough to move these contracts? maybe, but shouldn't 1 of 32 people in the world in that position be able to pull it off? What else does he have to do this week?

[Squire]

I just don't think they are very smart. Their front office has been built for 2 decades based on your prior relationship with somebody rather than any rational search based on being really good at the relevant tasks. They are not run like a competitive business. They are run like a college fraternity.

[bigegypt0417]

flyers Trade zack McKewan for Brendan Lemieux and a 5th Round pick from the Kings.

Pretty ok move getting an expiring contract and adding a pick.

Pretty much the same player.

[zambonir]

I don't really think it's an excuse, it's just an indictment of how average the talent is, and how poor the contracts. There are just better ways for the other teams to spend their own assets (and available cap space).

In the end, it's not necesssarily a bad thing. A 31-team trade market with greater cap and roster flexibility is bigger than a deadline trade market, so even if you don't expect much for the likes of D'Angelo or Hayes or Provorov, there may still be better deals later. But more importantly, hopefully Fletcher isn't the one making the next round of trades.

[Aquapong]

In terms of spending assets unwisely, dumping Ghost and giving Az picks to take him and then turning around and spending good picks to get another Ghost in Deangelo was just dumb.

The Risto trade was bad, compounded by resigning him instead of unloading him at that deadline.

I’ll give him a pass on the draft stuff. Picking outside of the first 12 picks or so is really just like throwing spaghetti at the wall and seeing what sticks. Patrick and Myers could’ve been used in a trade where we’d at least get a guy that could actually suit up and play. Ellis was known to be injury prone before we got him.

[Docs]

Brown to Ottawa for a 6th round pick. Looks like a JVR trade to Detroit fell through and he won't be traded because the Flyers ran out of time, guess that's the risk of only working on deadline day.

[Docs]

But more importantly, hopefully Fletcher isn't the one making the next round of trades.

We can dream can't we

[zambonir]

You gotta laugh or you'd have to cry

Hearing that JvR ultimately was not traded.

What an absolute failure on the part of Chuck Fletcher and the Flyers.

— Charlie O'Connor ( @charlieo_conn ) March 3, 2023

Maybe they can re-sign him

[Docs]

[zambonir]

The thing that is especially amazing to me is how it feels like the Flyers have already missed an entire cycle, maybe two. They're by no means the only team to fail over that time period but most of the others actually won a Cup first.

Like, after losing that series to the Flyers in 2010 (with the Flyers going to the Final) the Bruins won it all the next year, went back to the Final in 2013 and 2019, and are good now.

The 2014 Rangers, with head coach Alain Vigneault and Henrik Lundquvist, lost to LA in the Cup final, were a non-factor from 2018 to 2021, and are now back strong.

The Devils have been about as bad as the Flyers but their last Cup final was more recent (2012) and they're finally really good this year.

And the Pens and Caps have obviously peaked, but they've continued to make the playoffs since their last Cup win (in addition to having done that) and probably have every bit as much of a chance as the Flyers to be good over the next five years.

[Aquapong]

Bottom line is we didn’t have any serious assets to trade easily. Tk is injured. Hayes has a pricey contract. Hart would require a king’s ransom. Atkinson is injured but could be a decent chip next year if he returns to form.

[Docs]

The Flyers have booked a 4 year journey with Rebuilding Airlines on a 4 engine jet from Philadelphia to the Stanley Cup Finals! The ownership group has decided to remove one engine from the plane prior to take off, but don't fret, this decision will only result in a 1.5 year delay. The plane has taken off, we are on our way!

From his seat in first class, Bob Clarke decides he wants to make sure that everyone knows that he still influences the organization and announces that a second engine will be taken out of service mid-flight, a move that results in an additional 3 year delay. Since Paul Holmgren just repeats all of Bob Clarke's mistakes, and for some reason has an entire row to himself in first class, Holmgren stands up and announces that he too will be removing an engine from the plane mid flight, a move that adds another six years to the journey. Their hand-picked GM holds a press conference and announces all of the wonderful trades that he has made, which included shipping off the fourth and final engine from the jet. When will the plane arrive at the Stanley Cup Finals?

[zambonir]

O'Connor tweeted some of Fletcher's comments. Said nobody really wanted JVR that much. Says they offered to pick up half his salary, take back a contract, and didn't even get a firm offer of a 4th-rounder. And that he made 17 calls yesterday and only received two.

Either way, it's an indictment. They have pricey injured & older players because they signed and acquired them for a team they thought could contend. Sadly Couts may yet go into that category too (or should be traded as part of a real rebuild). And TK is not a top player on a serious Cup contender, just a good one.

So what do you do with JVR and Braun now - or Hayes for that matter? Send them to Allentown? (Mostly kidding, it's not like they need to call up some youth, the youth is probably better off staying in the AHL and trying to make the playoffs.)

Inquirer had their web headline ready off the initial Detroit report

[bkeich]

So basically Fletcher decided he wasn't getting enough for JVR so he decided to accept absolutely nothing. Great plan.

Yes, this is a 4-5 year build (not a rebuild since we didn't have anything to build back to), but the clock doesn't start until you have a competent GM.

[Austinfan]

1: jury is still out, York is a solid top 4 D-man, but the key is Brink, who led the NCAA in scoring as a 20 year old junior. If he ends up close to Caufield this is a big win. Caufield is an offense only player who's primarily a goal scorer, whereas Brink is more physical for a small player and a very good playmaker.

2: This was more bad luck than anything, Ellis had played the second half and then 25 minutes a night in the playoffs before we traded for him - so it's unlikely he was damaged good. A healthy Ellis is a true 1st pair D-man.

3 & 4 are a package: Ghost was dumped at a market price, as can be seen by how little he got in trade as a UFA (2026 3rd rd pick) no one thought he was worth $4.5M for 2 years. However, to dump him then use that cap room to trade for Risto and a 1st and 2nd was a total waste of resources, even though Torts/Shaw have turned him into a passable 4th/5th D-man, not one close to being worth that price.

5: TDA was an overpay, but there was interest this TDL, and if his defense gets back to his NY level of mediocrity, he's a top offensive player who'll bring back a 2nd next TDL.

Fletcher's real problem was he patched and patched with no real vision.
Part of that is the front office, part of that is he's a "paint by numbers" guy with no real creativity.

So he slightly overpaid Hayes (pre-COVID contract, all look inflated post-COVID), gave up a 2nd and 3rd for Braun, etc.
Worked in 2019-20, things fell apart in 2020-21, so instead of a step back, he doubled down and everything cratered last year - but instead of admitting it was time to rebuild, I think he lacked the guts to confront Scott and the advisors, so he ends up trading G, avoiding the bad contract with JG (fine for a contender, a disaster for a rebuild) but extending instead of trading Risto and overpaying for TDA.

[Austinfan]

They can do this with a competent GM, but they also need to dump Scott and the advisors and get a FO that will backup the GM and Torts. Torts rebuilt CBJ quickly but his GM basically threw all the chips into the middle of the table, then the team cratered when Panarin, Duchene and Bob all left without compensation.

They have a nice group of young players under 25: Frost, Farabee, Tippett, Cates, York, Hart and prospects like Desnoyers, Foerster, Lycksell, Attard, Zamula, Andrae, Ersson. But they lack top players, maybe Gauthier. They need to pick high the next couple years but also turn most of the players 26 and older next year into younger assets, from Hayes and Atkinson, Laughton, Allison, TDA, Risto, Provorov, maybe Sanheim or TK. Free up cap room and use it to add more assets, not older free agents. Bring in one year veteran patches and flip them at the TDL.

Build a young, fast team and have Torts mold it into a smart, disciplined, aggressive attacking team.

[bkeich]

... and that will take a long time. That is hoping, but some of those players you listed have not done well so far and are more likely to flame out than succeed. Surely some will be solid players, but as you stated none of them are "top" players.

We just wasted another opportunity to get some draft capital. There are usually very few sellers at the NHL deadline , we were one of them, but instead we held on to our players do we can try and sell them when all teams are both selling and buying instead of during the market when there are limited sellers. We held on to JVR because Fletcher ran out of time because he waited too long so instead we will get nothing for him.

Torts so far stands out for alienating our players. It sounds like no one on this roster really wants to play for him. Maybe these are not his type of players, or maybe this was just the wrong situation for him. I am unimpressed so far, the team is actually doing better than I thought it would, but that is really a negative.

Fletcher is a complete joke. His trades so far have been disasters, without exception. His non-moves are even worse.

From what I can see 3 years from now we will be STARTING our build. You are right, first the FO needs to get fixed, and that is going to take at least 2 years. Whether Torts is good or not, by the time they straighten out the FO (if they do) and start to get some talent Torts will be on his way out anyway.

[zambonir]

All of the above is largely besides the point, I think. They need to sell the team! Without that, Scott isn't going anywhere, and the organization's goals are part of a larger corporate and media asset strategy, not just about winning. A passionate, committed owner that cares about winning more than anything else still makes plenty of mistakes, including the same ones Fletcher and Comcast have the past five years. But at least the fans know somebody cares. There is a reason Torts has become the face of the franchise. It can't be Comcast, it can't be Fletcher, and there isn't even a player filling that role (or wearing a C).

Fletcher is spinning but I read his comments as, he didn't have an offer for JVR, period. Detroit fell apart, perhaps that was the team offering a 4th (thus, not "firm") and nobody else was even offering a 5th or 6th. The other teams didn't like him better than anyone else they could get or anyone else they already had. Ditto Braun, understandably. Not that different from the Phillies and Didi and Herrera really.

Fletcher also said the trade fell apart because the Wings had to move another player to clear a roster spot for him.

"They had a concept that if they were able to move a forward off of their team, then they had interest in acquiring JVR," said Fletcher, who said he was told the deal was off 20 minutes before the trade deadline. "All along, it was conditional on the other trade going through and eventually the other trade fell through."

"The one offer that I did get for JVR was at 1:40 this afternoon, and it was a conditional offer," he said. "I didn't know what the market might be, but I thought there would be at least some offers that we had to consider."

Fletcher said he spoke with every team in the NHL about potentially acquiring van Riemsdyk, not only so the Flyers could pick up assets for him but in the hopes of getting the veteran winger on a playoff team. But he said "every team told us 'no' several times" before the Red Wings came to the table.

Flyers GM: Red Wings nixed van Riemsdyk trade

[Austinfan]

Red Wings weren't trading for JVR, they were part of a three way deal.
They blew it, but what they blew was a 3rd at best, probably a 4th rd pick. Not the end of the world.

Fletcher is "dead GM walking" I'll bet he's fired when the season ends.

Scott was the CFO for Brian Roberts' father, but I think at some point he'll be asked to resign and they'll appoint someone who'll clean house. This is too embarrassing for Roberts to tolerate for long.