The Ended Flyers Thread

[bigegypt0417]

The positive is the 4 going aheady are pretty good too!

[jimbomill]

we got Nolan Patrick

At the time, Patrick was a near consensus Top 2 pick. Most everyone missed on him. The Devils didn't miss though, they were smart/lucky enough to pass on him at #1.

[LegoDoom]

I think I'm fine if Gauthier was the pick. He definitely has the measurables and his stats are good.

[VoteForKalas]

At the time, Patrick was a near consensus Top 2 pick. Most everyone missed on him. The Devils didn't miss though, they were smart/lucky enough to pass on him at #1.

True, but Nico has not been stellar for the Devils either. This is different than the Kane/JVR disaster

[Austinfan]

The problem for the Flyers is the fossils (Holmgren, Clarke).
It's not an accident both were fired last time the Flyers seriously rebuild (Clarke GM, Holmgren HC).

They are both married to the "Flyers' way" and to buying their way into contention - attitudes that belong in the last century before the hard salary cap and the rule changes that put a greater premium on skill v physical play.

Until they are removed from any position of influence, it doesn't matter who they hire as GM and HC - they will ensure those hires follow outdated strategies.

Scott needs to bring in an executive from a 21 century organization like TB and give him carte blanche to clear house and stay the f--- out of the way.

[zambonir]

The big misses that year were at 3 and 4, but nobody would have done it differently at the time.

The Flyers are literally the Phillies: Clarke, Holmgren, Barber as "Senior Advisors" with too much influence over the CEO (or president or whatever Dave Scott is). Along with Dean Lombardi who somehow outlasted Hexy. And Hexy literally got fired because he didn't suck up to the old-timers enough. I don't think they have more power than Fletcher but it doesn't matter because they're all on the same page. And Briere is probably the next GM.

[Austinfan]

Don't think it's a matter of "more power."

Rather, the consensus model makes it hard for Fletcher to push for a rebuild, or a change from the Flyers Way, when the Boss is in the room with 3 or 4 advisors who keep throwing out arguments why that wouldn't be wise, will alienate the fan base, etc. etc.

Without a clear mandate going forward, Fletcher, or whomever they replace him with, will muddle through and be unable to effect major changes. We've seen that with the Phillies.

[zambonir]

I don't think we actually know that it works that way. I think Holmgren (most of all) and Clarke have influence over Scott, and Fletcher answers to Scott (but is a crony of those guys). But Fletcher was hired to win, Vigneault was hired to win, everyone was on the same page, and having failed to change direction in either of the last two seasons there actually is a clear mandate going forward - just not the correct one. Agree, Scott and Comcast should bring in some fresh blood and get out of the way but the only way that will truly happen is when Comcast sells.

[jimbomill]

Yes, wish we make a good pick this draft

[Aquapong]

If they hire Danny, it better be because they think he’ll build a team for deep playoff runs and not because he’s a fan favorite that will keep jaded fans coming back. My son wears 48 btw.

[zambonir]

I don't think it's about him being a fan favorite, more like, he's a corporate favorite. He ran the AHL team in Maine for Comcast and now he's a special assistant to Fletcher. It would basically be a repeat of Hextall, a fresher young-ish face, but still an insider. I am not saying (at all!) that they should do it, just that it seems the obvious scenario.

[VoteForKalas]

Yes, wish we make a good pick this draft

Agreed

[flyers19rw]

Briere certainly has his supporters around town. As a player he was a feisty guy who went into the dirty areas and had success. Then come PO time, he was as tough of a guy to beat on the ice as there was. He decided to go into management. Started at the bottom and has worked his way up to where he deserves consideration for a GM spot. No one has gifted him anything.

[LegoDoom]

I'm not sure where the bottom is, but starting as the president of an ECHL club owned by the company that he formerly played for probably doesn't fall under "no one has gifted him anything."

Not that there's anything wrong with him having good relationships with former FO people and other players, but it certainly doesn't indicate he will steer the club in a different direction.

[zambonir]

Haha yeah he wasn't exactly riding buses. He was also already considered a candidate to be the Canadiens GM. But I could just as easily see him being groomed for Scott's job, rather than pure hockey ops.

[LegoDoom]

And I think the Coyotes at one point.

I wasn't trying to diminish whether he deserved the attention or not. Even though Hextall also had the same advantages, it seemed like he had much more of a natural management path.

[flyers19rw]

The year was a bad one, no doubt. Many things caused it. However to see villains everywhere conspiring to doom this organization for decades is silly. Most organizations rely on past players to help them plan for the future-Neely and Sweeney in Boston; Yzerman in Detroit; Sakic in Colorado and so forth.
It seems that the Flyers are doing that with Briere. Holmgren has publicly stated that, following the hiring of Vigneault, that he was stepping away from the club. Clarke has indicated repeatedly that he has no role in the club. So there is a need for new blood at the top. Someone saw Briere as a person who could help but needed to learn the ropes so the ECHL is where he started. He must have some ability in management since Montreal was recently interested in hiring him.
Before anyone dogs the guy, let’s first see if he is given a responsible job and then evaluate him after that. He has no attachments to the BSBs and was never one to play with that physical presence. He was more of a tough dedicated player who was willing to do the dirty work to win games. Right now the Flyers could use players like Briere. If he works in management as he did on the ice, he’d be a valuable addition to the organization.

[LegoDoom]

Before anyone dogs the guy, let’s first see if he is given a responsible job and then evaluate him after that. He has no attachments to the BSBs and was never one to play with that physical presence. He was more of a tough dedicated player who was willing to do the dirty work to win games. Right now the Flyers could use players like Briere. If he works in management as he did on the ice, he’d be a valuable addition to the organization.

I am not dogging Briere and what I remember from some pieces on him years ago he seems like a really good person. He was obviously a good player.

I disagree a bit that he doesn't have a connection to the BSBs as his relationships to the people in the organization make that connection. In the same way that the organization gave him that initial job.

I think that smart players likely make smart managers. However, that does not always translate to success. Not hockey, but Michael Jordan has been awful with the Hornets.

I was also a Hextall fan, so I definitely agree with some of your points. Then again, Hextall was shown the door when his longer term mindset wasn't accepted.

[zambonir]

I don't see villains everywhere conspiring to doom this organization for decades, I see a single villain, Comcast-Spectacor. Not that things were actually that much better when Snider was still alive, but he'd earned that right, and had someone who seemed to be pretty good in Luukko (who now runs the Panthers, seems like they are a lot better than the Flyers huh?). Now it's the worst of both worlds, a semi-detached corporate owner (whose business interests are served whether the team is good or not) and no new ideas/fresh blood supplanting an outdated team culture.

[LegoDoom]

Now it's the worst of both worlds, a semi-detached corporate owner (whose business interests are served whether the team is good or not) and no new ideas/fresh blood supplanting an outdated team culture.

This sounds about right.