The Ended Flyers Thread

[LegoDoom]

took me a sec to see it, wow. that's the kind of thing you expect on home ice.

Because of how the puck comes off the boards? You are right, but a lot of players test the boards before the game.I'm not sure if they actually do, but G and especially Couts seem like those types of players.

[zambonir]

Yeah, that just makes it even more savvy if so - but I figure on home ice you already have that knowledge/more experience with the bounces.

[LegoDoom]

Yes. I'm not sure if it's true anymore, but 15-20 years ago that puck would barely come off the boards on that play in some rinks.

I don't think I ever bothered to read if it was a materials or installation issue.

[xogfog]

Flyers with a nice road win as well over the Caps. Martin Jones has been great so far this year, Very steady.

[Philsmania]

I don't usually follow the Flyers or this thread closely but I thought this was interesting piece on what is looking more and more like a failed rebuild. In short, this writer thinks the Flyers under Hextall basically only went halfway on rebuilding, instead of really tearing things down.

The Rebuild That Never Was

[zambonir]

I'm not sure Hextall ever had the latituded to fully rebuild. Snider was still alive, and trying to make the playoffs Hakstol's first season was folly.

[VoteForKalas]

I don't usually follow the Flyers or this thread closely but I thought this was interesting piece on what is looking more and more like a failed rebuild. In short, this writer thinks the Flyers under Hextall basically only went halfway on rebuilding, instead of really tearing things down.

Hextall was never allowed to fully tear it down. The Flyers have always been against full rebuilds, from the entire tenure under Snider to the current ownership situation. Hextall was expected to rebuild, while at the same time, win. The goals are contradictory and lead to the foggy middle ground the Flyers find themselves in again like so many other times in their history.

I think they fear they will lose the fans, especially the ones who attend the games and retain season tickets. Every other team has done at least one total rebuild, in some cases multiple ones, since the Flyers came into existence, but the Flyers never had the courage or vision to do so. IMO, if you give the Philadelphia fans a strong case for rebuilding from scratch and pursue it fully, they will support it as we've seen with the 76ers most recently.

The closest they got was in the early 90's when the team hit rock bottom which led to the trade for Lindros etc. that brought the Flyers back into relevance, but doomed them to the same endless cycle of falling short and not being able to sustain the level for very long.

They have always had laser focus on being competitive every season which ensured they were never great enough to win the Cup and build a dynasty again.

Hextall definitely restocked the farm, fixed the cap situation and tried to instill a methodology that allowed for development of that talent before they were forced into the NHL and expected to carry a full load. However, his tenure was cut short and we've now seen Fletcher & Vigneault brought in to put the Flyers right back on the compete each season merry go round. Players like Hart, Myers, Sanheim and Farabee were rushed which has led to mixed performance and the signings of/trades for vets like Risto, Yandle, Brassard, Atkinson, Thompson and Ellis who have IMO disappointing so far.

Fletcher & Co. will get fired in 2-3 years and the cycle will start over.

[zambonir]

The COVID-interrupted season really messed up the current Flyers' front office's self-assessment too. Had they stunk a little more that season things might have differently. (Ditto had they been able to live up to it last year.)

I don't really understand why NBC still wants to own them, tbh. Snider's dead, they sold the Sixers, there's still talk of getting out of the RSN biz. And the Flyers' core fan base isn't big enough to really do anything for the overall business, with or without cord-cutting.

[Philsmania]

Another issue the Flyers have with their fanbase is that it is GREYING...dying off. A lot of old Silents and Boomers and some Xers who remember the glory days. Millennials and Z's never really know a time when they had a chance to win the cup, aside from 1997 and 2010 and those generations are not engaged. There used to be a long wait list for Flyers' season tickets. Now, as more of their fans are in nursing homes or The Great Beyond, there isn't one anymore.

[bkeich]

This is an unbelievable collapse. This team started off very strong and I thought “at least maybe this year we easily make the playoffs and maybe get through a round”’. Saw some things that looked really good in the first 10 games, but this is an absolute train wreck. We may find our way to a very high draft pick and I assume the coach is toast (again). Have to think that Giroux is traded, maybe quite a few others.

[kmc1019]

Concur on a teardown and coaching change. The same lack of dynamic scoring threats that has plagued the franchise for years continues, and there are no blue-chip offensive prospects currently in the system at a level that will change that. Still, this team looks solid and deep on paper, but somehow they - for a decade really - end up being less than the sum of their parts.

[zambonir]

Unfortunately I think this:

Concur on a teardown and coaching change.

Is ultimately the same thing as this:

Fletcher & Co. will get fired in 2-3 years and the cycle will start over.

It turned out these were still Holmgren and Clarke's Flyers when they fired Hexy and I don't know that the current Comcast regime can change anything. Same problem every team in Philly has really.

[Aquapong]

They have so many players that look for the pretty passes instead of employing a power game. The defense on the best teams is too technically proficient nowadays to allow that stuff.

This team has no identity. Just blow it up. Trade Giroux if he’ll ok a trade and get salvage what you can and trade Risto. Disastrous trade for Fletcher. Ditch Jvr the one trick pony.

[bkox]

Hearing #Flyers are making a coaching change. Alain Vigneault fired.

— Frank Seravalli ( @frank_seravalli ) December 6, 2021

[Philsmania]

[quote="bkox, post:936, topic:42662, full:true"]

Hearing #Flyers are making a coaching change. Alain Vigneault fired.

— Frank Seravalli ( @frank_seravalli ) December 6, 2021

[/quote]

Like that will do a lot of good.

[flyers19rw]

“The longest journey begins with the first step.” Step one, fire Vigneault. Step two, fire Therrien. The journey starts.

[zambonir]

Gotta fire the coach before you can fire the GM.

[bkeich]

Seems like we are just stuck in a cycle. I have a funny feeling the players, coach and GM are not the problem.

[VoteForKalas]

Vigneault was, I believe, the 5th Flyers HC since the 2013-14 season when Lavy was fired.
Yeo becomes the 6th. That is less than 10 seasons.

I think you're right, bkeich, the problem is with upper management & ownership's strategy for running the organization which impacts scouting, drafting, talent development, talent acquisition (FA/trades), roster construction, talent retention, coaching etc.

Hextall was brought in to finally put the Flyers on a sustainable path of competition for a longer period of time. This was coming off the merry go round under Clarke and then Holmgren as zambonir stated well. However, they hamstrung Hextall by also mandating that he maintain a competitive team at the NHL level i.e. win games and keep the fans in the seats.

When that, predictably, failed, Hextall was fired and Fletcher, his polar opposite, was brought in to win now. Picks have been traded, talent pushed to the NHL level, vets brought in to help the youth and new coaching to implement systems that could maximize the talent on the ice. Unfortunately, they had not studied Fletcher's tenure in MN carefully enough and how he hollowed out that roster in a vain attempt to win. He has started to do the same here, but, hopefully with Vigneault & Therrien gone, maybe the Flyers realize this is not working.

We'll see if they swing back to the opposite again. If they keep Fletcher and allow him to hire another coach or stick with Yeo, I'd be concerned we'll be here again soon. Flyers need to figure out their identity, how they want their team to play and what type of talent is needed to make that system work. Then hire the new GM and HC based on that strategy. Right now, they are rolling dice blindfolded and the results demonstrate the folly of that approach.

[flyers19rw]

AIR, Hextall was fired for being a bit of a control freak that stepped on the toes of former the Flyers establishment. He had a plan that needed a five year run. His draft was aimed at rebuilding the club from the goal out. The on ice product was to be made to be competitive by adding FAs to strengthen the roster that had some good established players in it. His HC was player development guy who had had good luck working with young players at ND.
The plan failed. Hakstol's systems of play were seen by some as being too elementary for the NHL. The FAs that he signed didn't fill in the holes in the roster very well. Some potential trades were turned down by Hextall which didn't jibe with his rebuilding plan. His drafting didn't create instant NHL players. When asked to devote from his plan, he refused so he was let go. It wasn't the prettiest of Flyer eras but it sure beat the pants off of what Vigneault did to the club over the last two years.