The 2018 Phillies managerial search

andyb 2017-10-23 01:01:05 UTC #81

This article collects some more interview notes:

We did interview Manny Acta, Phil Nevin and Chip Hale. It is unclear on whether Callaway actually interviewed or the Mets got him first. Acta was a very analytics friendly manager in his first two stops. Just did not have great teams to work with generally.

zambonir 2017-10-23 01:42:09 UTC #82

I missed that about Acta though most of the rest is old.You have to take Acta seriously if DiPoto's recommending him. He probably brings the strongest combination of managerial experience and the other things Klentak wants, though his experience (as in his W-L record) doesn't look so great to the casual fan.

Philsmania 2017-10-23 14:29:01 UTC #83

I wonder how high the Phillies were on Cora and Calloway who are both now off the board. If so, some criticism of Klentak can possibly creep in here. One thing I have noticed about him is that he's not one for quick decisions and he tends to move in a very, very deliberate manner, for example, see all the deadline deals he made (or, in the case of Hellickson in 2016, didn't make) and how long it took for the Giles trade to eventually become a final product. Is he possibly moving too slow here?

fish 2017-10-23 14:34:36 UTC #84

I think Cora was nearly predetermined to join the Sox. I like the idea of Calloway, and this is strictly anecdotal, but I can't recall too many pitching coaches that became good managers. Bud Black is the only guy I can think of. Valendia is intriguing, but I think given his lack of experience he might have a hard time commanding a clubhouse. Seems like a better fit as a bench guy as a liaison to the stats group.

Philsmania 2017-10-23 14:38:49 UTC #85

To summarize and factor into recent hirings by the Red Sox and Mets:

Confirmed candidates:
Acta
Nevin
Hale
Valendia
Samuel
Wathan

Rumored Candidates:
DiSarcina
Ausmus
Redmond
Kapler (not listed by MLBTR but mentioned elsewhere, possibly confirmed)

To be honest, I am not crazy about any of the retread candidates, those being Acta, Hale, Ausmus and Redmond, considering that none of them had any real success. That is unless their prior situations really were bad situations. In the cases of Acta and Hale, the teams they formerly managed enjoyed considerably more success with the guy who succeeded them so that is something of a red flag, in my opinion. Having said that, I suppose one can claim a counterpoint to that in how the Phillies enjoyed a 21 win improvement under Bowa in 2001 after they canned Tito but Tito later went on to become a HOF manager in Boston and Cleveland.

Philsmania 2017-10-23 14:40:17 UTC #86

I share that concern about Valendia. He's never managed at any level. Calloway was at least a college head coach at one point. As for pitching coaches who became successful managers, yeah, they are few and far between. I was thinking Larry Dierker was one but while he was a pitcher, he was never a pitching coach.

Just wondering, is there any limit to the number of coaches a staff can have? I remember growing up when it used to be just bench coach/backup manager, pitching coach, first base coach who was also usually hitting coach, third base coach and bullpen coach. Now, the first base coach specializes in baserunning, we have multiple pitching coaches, multiple hitting coaches, a catching coach and sometimes multiple bench coaches. The Dodgers have a "quality assurance coach". Could that be a position Valendia slides into if he doesn't get the job?

andyb 2017-10-23 14:57:58 UTC #87

Acta definitely got young teams in both of his stops that were not yet supposed to be good. I think he did OK with the Nats even though the team got progressively worse. If you remember the Expos in the last couple of years either traded all their prospects or did not spend any significant money to sign them. The Nats in 2005 started to reverse that course but the period Acta managed (2007-2009) was really the period where they had few prospects in their pipeline and no incentive to spend money on the major league roster.

With Cleveland they improved a lot in his second year but regressed in his 3rd year. Their pitching was really bad (Jeannmar Gomez was in their starting rotation for half the year!). I think the consensus on Acta was more bad situation than that he was bad. Now he could just be a favorite of all these analytics GM because he buys into their stuff, but I am not sure he is necessarily a bad retread yet.

One could argue that Hale really should have been better last year when that team imploded (after admittedly bad Stewart GM moves). Grienke had an off year and Shelby Miller imploded on his watch. There was bad luck involved and most people agree that the Stewart moves were bad in the long term, but they did have a roster that theoretically should have been able to go .500 but did not.

flyers19rw 2017-10-23 15:28:01 UTC #88

I may be wrong but I thought that Valendia had experience as a manager and some in the FO of a team in the Venezuelan League. That's not anything like something Stateside but he has some leadership roles in his resume.
No matter who the Phillies select to manage, it looks like they need to be a person capable of working the people who are already here and comfortable with the philosophy that the organization has been creating since MacPhail's hire. For this reason I'd give the edge to either Wathan or Valendia as the choice. You may be correct that Wathan is the guy and Valendia would be something such as the "quality assurance coach" that you suggest.

zambonir 2017-10-23 15:32:39 UTC #89

My guess on Cora is that the Phillies simply knew he wasn't interested. And if he hadn't taken the Sox job the Nats were on him. He played for both teams. And arguably (hopefully) the Phillies' future is brighter than Washington, but short-term, for a guy who is coaching in the World Series this week, which team would you want to take over in 10 days?

AJ Hinch was also a failed first-time manager (as was Joe Torre and Francona of course). That's an argument for the so-called retreads.

And I doubt our GM who's never been a GM is afraid to hire a rookie manager. Dave Roberts was one too of course.

andyb 2017-10-23 15:37:44 UTC #90

Velandia was the GM of the 2013 Venezuelan WBC team. Does not look like he has managed though he has done a variety of jobs in the last half dozen years. Not sure how I feel about him as a potential manager. It certainly would be an "out there" choice. But he also has the type of background that might make a pretty good manager. It does not look like he was just an interview to satisfy the minority requirements as he is one of three Latino candidates to interview. They would not go for the 42-year-old with no experience if they did not have sound reasons to do so. Article from 2015:

flyers19rw 2017-10-23 15:58:20 UTC #91

From the USA Today article that Andyb cited above:
"“It seems like I’m a utility guy,” Velandia said. “Wherever they need me, I really appreciate their belief in me and what I bring to the table and they have confidence enough to bring me in a job capacity that they need help.”

If what he says of himself is true, that would be the type of guy that the present FO would want in charge. They know him and vice versa. More and more it seems that today with successful organizations, the manager and the entire FO team have to be on the same page. In the past a strong manager could drive the FO or the GM could dictate to the manager. Those days seem to be over.

zambonir 2017-10-23 16:38:59 UTC #92

Yup. You don't want to hire a guy with no people skills or no baseball experience whatsoever (which you can do in a front office and some of those guys have become GMs). But all else being equal, it's going to be someone who is comfortable with analytics and sees the clubhouse and the front office as being essentially the same department. Even the traditional wall of separation between the GM making the roster and the manager deciding who to play and when is crumbling when platoons, reliever usage and even starting rotation and pitch selection choices are driven by data (as they were for Houston in Game 7, and the 69 year-old pitching coach had no problem implementing that).

zambonir 2017-10-23 17:03:33 UTC #93

No new candidates/news, except maybe for this part:

Hale and Nevin have connections to Bryan Minniti, a Phillies special assistant to the general manager, who has played a key role in the search process. Minniti worked in Arizona’s front office from 2015-16 when Hale, 52, was the Diamondbacks manager and Nevin, 46, managed the organization’s triple-A team.

andyb 2017-10-23 17:22:10 UTC #94

Hard to read the tone of that article but it sounded like insiders were pushing for Kapler a bit with the line about the Phillies adopting some of the nutrition packages he had put in place with LA. He certainly fits the analytics mode and did manage for one season. His last few years in the majors he clearly had that manager in waiting aura placed around him.

zambonir 2017-10-23 18:25:27 UTC #95

Kapler's my guy.

Also worth revisiting this link julio posted

https://www.philliesphans.com/t/2015-season-phillies-news-notes-general-discussion/42038/866?u=zambonir

phillychuck 2017-10-23 19:18:49 UTC #96

Kapler is one of the best conditioned/muscled athletes who has ever played baseball. Wonder if his plan could help Maikel or Rhys a bit? I don't think he was involved with steroids, but he looks like someone who has really paid attention to his health and conditioning. (He still looks like the image below (basically)). What does he bring to the team outside of strength and conditioning?

scorcher 2017-10-23 19:38:51 UTC #97

Jmho, I'd like to see Dusty get his chance so we don't lose him to another organization.

zambonir 2017-10-23 19:45:48 UTC #98

Baker?

I don't know that Wathan will have a better offer - assuming the Phillies want him on the major league coaching staff that is. If they don't then they aren't worried about losing him.

I think Kapler is the complete package, not just the fitness stuff. It would definitely be weird if that was his primary strength because that's a little too narrow for the manager. But then I think the same thing about all these articles saying Callaway got hired because their pitching needs help. We always heard that about Charlie and hitters too, but managers mostly have to manage.

andyb 2017-10-23 19:48:13 UTC #99

Of course that physique peaked after his age 25 season in 2001. That was the year Bonds hit 73 homers. I don't think he was ever linked to steroids, but if he were a poor Dominican kid I bet there would have been lots of whispering.

phillychuck 2017-10-23 22:15:44 UTC #100

Just heard Callaway's intro press conference on WFAN on the way home. He was a guy I really wanted, but after hearing his press conference I was not as impressed as I expected to be--lots of platitudes, no real plan other than "we'll treat the players better than they've ever been treated" and "I'll love them all so there won't be any issues". No real discussion of personnel or strategy or analytics, which was disappointing.