The 2018 Phillies managerial search

California_Dreamin 2017-10-10 20:22:08 UTC #21

Actually Cafardo is a very reliable writer for the Boston Globe and his Sunday baseball column is must reading for baseball fans, though much like Peter Gammons old column used to be, very Boston Red Sox tinted. No different than the old Jayson Stark Sunday column was tinted towards the Phillies when he wrote that great Sunday column for the Inquier.

Here is what I think might be happening. Amaro has long indicated he wants to manage and in fact this was one of the reasons he took the Red Sox coaching job. I believe the Phils still have a soft spot in their hearts for Amaro [lets face it, half the team now was acquired by him in deals and he did help orchestrate the incredible 2009-11 run] and would like to help him get a managing job...with Boston.

Rumors are that the Sox may fire Farrell and if they do so, RA probably wants an interview. What better way to get a quick interview [if the Sox are interested] than if there is a rumor of another teams interest. I believe the Phils, who have a good relationship with Cafardo from their Hamels to Boston days, might have floated this rumor not because they want RA but because they would like to help him if they can get another job.

flyers19rw 2017-10-10 20:48:26 UTC #22

CD, do you believe that Amaro deserves all of the credit for these acquisitions? Gillick, Jordan and perhaps others had no input?

California_Dreamin 2017-10-10 23:12:54 UTC #23

I said he helped, and he did. He traded for Lee, Halladay and Oswalt, signed Lee as a FA and certainly did some good things during that period. Look, I wanted Arbuckle and was never a big phan of RA but to dismiss his efforts is silly. Of course, I have always been a big phan of Gillick and still believe he was the guy most responsible for bringing the organization into the 21st Century but also believe that history will be good to Amaro since the further from his days as GM get the better his deals at the end of his reign look.

His Hamels deals was great, and this comes from a guy who was terrified he would blow it, he got Lively and Pivetta for guys he signed as free agents, his drafts produced some real solid talent, he was the only spokesman I can recall who pushed hard to draft Cozens when no one even knew who he was and he was able to navigate the waters of rebuild well AFTER either he or Monty finally decided it was time.

I was not a big phan of his and found his attitude arrogant and condescending. I want nothing to do with him ever being back in a leadership position with the Phillies. But, as with Wade, it is difficult to not acknowledge that he did leave the franchise rebuild in decent shape.

I would not blame the Phillies for wanting to help him with a future career move elsewhere in baseball, his blueprint is all over this team right now.

zambonir 2017-10-10 23:23:07 UTC #24

Jordan isn't involved in player acquisition.

Not that it takes a genius to acquire the players Amaro acquired. And you can still nitpick about a lot of the choices he (and the owners) made, including Ibanez, Polanco, not re-signing Werth, and the Lee deal.

But, those were the greatest regular season Phillies teams of the era and we'd remember Ruben a lot differently, or at least forgive his total lack of long-range thinking, if there'd been a 2nd (or 3rd) ring.

Anyway, I remain confident that Cafardo had no source, if he did, who is his source for Bowa? He has an Internet connection and that's all he used for this one.

flyers19rw 2017-10-10 23:24:16 UTC #25

AIR, Amaro's trades and acquisitions hadn't been to exciting- ex.- the Pence trade, signing of Ibanez, Lee trade to Seattle, etc. Then Gillick began to take an active part in the trading of the old guard and the returns began to look more appealing.

zambonir 2017-10-11 01:50:00 UTC #26

But Amaro acquired Halladay and Lee and Oswalt (and then signed Lee again). And Papelbon (not a fan of him or overpaying closers but he got results).

The difference and time period you cite was not Gillick taking over from Amaro, it was Gillick taking over from Montgomery.

And really Gillick's trades and FA signings from when he was actually GM don't look especially brilliant. Other than Lidge, Gillick's strength was the small deal paying off big (Werth, Feliz, Moyer, Blanton, several relievers). But OTOH: Flash Gordon, Adam Eaton, Garcia.

Amaro always had Gillick's support, and the reason he wasn't fired sooner is because he was doing the job as the owners wanted him to do it. It was only when they finally realized their mistake that they held him accountable for his (after first forcing out Monty just as Giles was forced out for Monty).

Which is also why some are willing to find a grain of truth in this gossip; it's not hard to imagine John Middleton and Ruben toasting the Howard extension at the time, or celebrating the signing of A.J. Burnett over cigars.

allentown 2017-10-11 12:59:28 UTC #27

I agree that the big blunders under the RAJ GM-ship were largely driven by short-sighted owners who refused to rebuild because they thought nostalgia would sell tickets and that a rebuild was a sign of their own malfeasance. Owners forced the Lee trade. They should have gone over budget for one year and taken a great run at another WC. I think the nostalgia express was a misguided attempt to make it up to the fans over this opportunity lost by their rigidity. It was misguided, because it couldn't work and led to years of awful.

Philsmania 2017-10-11 14:42:47 UTC #28

Red Sox fire John Farrell, so there's another franchise with a vacancy that the Phillies could conceivably have to compete with to land managerial talent. Will RAJ be a candidate there?

Philsmania 2017-10-11 20:51:39 UTC #29

Apparently, they interviewed Sammy today. Interesting to note, in addition to his Phillies pedigree--signed and developed by the Phillies, member of the '83 Phillies, second baseman for the All-Vet Team, holdover from Charlie Manuel's staff since 2011 and, interestingly, was around for the tail-end of both of the Phillies recent golden ages--he also has ties to MacPhail (and Klentak?) from his days with the Orioles. Even if he doesn't get the job, I could see him remaining on the staff. It seems like he's becoming the new John Vukovich. The good-natured Samuel has always been well-liked and he has been something of a "whisperer" to Herrera. And, for what it is worth, he would be the first person of color to manage the team.

andyb 2017-10-11 22:30:56 UTC #30

Sammy was also interim manager for the Orioles for a few games so he has a nice mix of Phillies and macphail experience.

I am fascinated that we keep seeing Jorge Velandia mentioned.

donaldorc 2017-10-12 00:11:18 UTC #31

I don't know how he would manage, but I think it would be a boost to all the Latino players on the team as well as the pipeline of new ones to join in the future!

California_Dreamin 2017-10-12 01:50:47 UTC #32

Salisbury is reporting tonight that Jorge Velendia interviewed today and has emerged as a strong candidate for the managing job. Apparently he had a great interview.

zambonir 2017-10-12 05:16:24 UTC #33

Given what Velandia did in Venezuela and the make-up of the team it definitely makes sense that he'd get serious consideration. Frankly it is almost impossible to imagine the new manager not being able to speak Spanish, now that all the players are used to being able to do so under Mackanin.

Unfortunately, minority candidate interviews are often still obligatory (I say that re: Samuel more than Velandia, I think they obviously like and respect Samuel but he's probably not getting the job).

Philsmania 2017-10-12 16:47:29 UTC #34

He is an interesting candidate as well. I guess people who like "outside the box" stuff would be pleased.

Wathan will interview but it almost seems like the media reports are playing him down.

Also, sources saying they want to interview Mike Redmond who has also drawn interest from the Tigers. I guess his lackluster record managing the Marlins is being viewed as his mulligan

zambonir 2017-10-12 16:52:28 UTC #35

Sure, see also, AJ Hinch, Terry Francona, probably lots of others.

Zolecki doesn't mention Redmond. Says Showalter's not happening.

Philsmania 2017-10-12 16:54:10 UTC #36

Heyman said it.

schillingfan 2017-10-12 17:27:14 UTC #37

Makes sense to interview those in house first as other candidates may be in playoffs now. My feeling is it won't be a retread.

andyb 2017-10-12 17:35:51 UTC #38

There may even be a "moneyball" theory to reaching out to Latino managerial candidates given how underrepresented they are in baseball. I suspect the language barrier (even with candidates that speak relatively good English) has made it tougher for good Latino managers to be considered at an equal rate as U.S. candidates. Felipe Alou was a very good manager when finally given a chance. When the playing field is uneven, good candidates get overlooked because maybe teams think the PR part of the job will be more challenging for someone who speaks English as a second language.

It is interesting to me that Velandia is one of the two guys mentioned so far as more analytically inclined. I suspect he and Klentak have a good rapport. Of course the lack of high level managerial experience is a concern though everyone needs to start somewhere and good managers often come from non traditional backgrounds.

zambonir 2017-10-13 02:16:47 UTC #39

Hey Philsmania read the first post of this thread

EDmuch 2017-10-13 12:53:55 UTC #40

Well maybe Dusty Baker will be available. Hard to find a manger like him whose every pitching move backfires every time.