Sports Media

[andyb]

I think the big thing is that the live services are not profitable. Hulu Live breaks even at best. The profits are in regular Hulu where there are no channel bundles that are priced way too high for the programming they deliver.

This collapsed quicker than I thought it would. I also fully expect ESPN Flagship to offer RSN add-ons and potentially Fox and even TNT sports. They just won't offer the entire channels. Fox especially does not have their own premium streaming service and already partner with Disney on Hulu. It makes perfect sense for Fox to offer their sports through ESPN Flagship for a TBD add-on fee.

[zambonir]

Fox actually is Disney. There is no separate company in terms of Hulu and network and cable shows (and movies).. Fox Sports is still separate. But one assumes the Venu deal establishes a path (and Warner already has its Hulu deal).

[Philsmania]

Fox actually is Disney. There is no separate company in terms of Hulu and network and cable shows (and movies).. Fox Sports is still separate. But one assumes the Venu deal establishes a path (and Warner already has its Hulu deal).

Not sure that is correct. I believe Disney acquired 20th Century Fox Studio (which produced a significant amount of Fox's programing) but not the Fox networks (Fox, FX1, Fox Sports 1, Fox News).

Acquisition of 21st Century Fox by Disney

[andyb]

When Fox got sold to Disney the broadcast channel, Fox Sports, and Fox News were split off. Fox has retained an agreement with Hulu to broadcast its network shows on Hulu. That is the sort of agreement I am expecting with ESPN flagship. And the Athletic article mentions this today:

Venu Sports’ shuttering, explained: Why ESPN, Fox, TNT scrapped launch of...

There was also an interesting note from Puck’s Matthew Belloni, who suggested that ESPN might “supercharge the offering with Fox Sports, whose combo of the NFL and college football, World Series baseball, and much more would give Flagship more than $15 billion worth of sports rights in one service. Wells Fargo analyst Steven Cahall has been predicting this for a while—in December, he wrote that an ESPN-Fox combo could lead to 3 million subs for Flagship by the end of the year.”

An ESPN-Fox partnership of some sort is something interesting to watch with the dissolution of Venu.

[zambonir]

My mistake about Fox broadcast but it still included the stake in Hulu, all the non-sports/news channels (like FX) and the TV studio as well as the film studios. So if you watch the Simpsons on Hulu Disney makes and owns that show, licenses it to Fox for broadcast TV (whereas previously it was made by Fox studio and put it on Fox TV, though those things weren't always synced) and probably still has a paper transaction (or pre-existing deal) with Hulu even though they own Hulu 100% now.

It just seems like there has to be another merger (or acquisition of NBC or CBS) down the line. Like, how are Fox and ESPN really bidding against each other for things like MLB and CFB and NFL in the next round? Really they are all trying to circle the wagons against Amazon and Netflix I I guess.

the acquisition included the 20th Century Fox film and television studios, U.S. cable channels such as FX, Fox Networks Group, a 73% stake in National Geographic Partners, Indian television broadcaster Star India, and a 30% stake in Hulu.

[andyb]

And here is the output of the Venu case settlement. Skinny bundles. Unfortunately this is going to be $70 a month which for me will make the choice of going with ESPN Flagship (and probably adding Peacock and Paramount+ when needed) easier.

DirecTV to offer ‘MySports,’ a smaller streaming package including 40 channels,...

[zambonir]

I had Directv Stream for a long time, with a heavily grandfathered lower rate from being an early adopter and having ATT phone. It was never a very good product, though when I lived in Portland it also meant I had Root Sports for Timbers and Seattle which I wanted more than Comcast for the Blazers anyway (and then they did a deal with Root at the end anyway). When we switched to T mobile we also switched to YouTube (with, as I think you know, Netflix and Apple free from T Mobile as well as Hulu though I still haven't removed that from my Disney bundle). We also get Peacock free from Instacart+.

I guess I'll ultimately be surprised if ESPN flagship + Peacock with Philly RSN add-on plus Hulu makes me want to ditch YT TV, and that's even before we know if Fox is going to be included (and if they add WB too, basically making it Venu, what will the price be?). Clearly all these companies still want as many carriage fees as they can get (from DirecTV in this case) for now.

[Philsmania]

My mistake about Fox broadcast but it still included the stake in Hulu, all the non-sports/news channels (like FX) and the TV studio as well as the film studios. So if you watch the Simpsons on Hulu Disney makes and owns that show, licenses it to Fox for broadcast TV (whereas previously it was made by Fox studio and put it on Fox TV, though those things weren't always synced) and probably still has a paper transaction (or pre-existing deal) with Hulu even though they own Hulu 100% now.

It just seems like there has to be another merger (or acquisition of NBC or CBS) down the line. Like, how are Fox and ESPN really bidding against each other for things like MLB and CFB and NFL in the next round? Really they are all trying to circle the wagons against Amazon and Netflix I I guess.

the acquisition included the 20th Century Fox film and television studios, U.S. cable channels such as FX, Fox Networks Group, a 73% stake in National Geographic Partners, Indian television broadcaster Star India, and a 30% stake in Hulu.

I've often wondered if CBS (and Paramount) would ultimately be absorbed by Warner Brothers Discovery.

[zambonir]

There was also talk about them merging or being bought by NBC, which would probably make even more sense now that NBC has split in two. Or at least a Peacock/Paramount + merger of joint venture.

Note that CBS is not included in the Directv skinny bundle, which is still a fair amount of college and pro football and college basketball (even if the Final Four is on cable).

[andyb]

I've often wondered if CBS (and Paramount) would ultimately be absorbed by Warner Brothers Discovery.

Most of the media pundits are predicting a bunch of mergers this year. Peacock and Paramount+ is the most often mentioned though Max is mentioned too. The sale of CBS and Paramount held things up a bit. I do think Max would like to be paired with a broadcast channel. During the NBA negotiations if they had a combined CBS/TNT pitch they might have won the rights that went to NBC.

I think sports leagues want to be on broadcast and streaming these days. There is just no long term future for cable only broadcasts because of the limited number of households they can reach.

[Philsmania]

I've often wondered if CBS (and Paramount) would ultimately be absorbed by Warner Brothers Discovery.

Most of the media pundits are predicting a bunch of mergers this year. Peacock and Paramount+ is the most often mentioned though Max is mentioned too. The sale of CBS and Paramount held things up a bit. I do think Max would like to be paired with a broadcast channel. During the NBA negotiations if they had a combined CBS/TNT pitch they might have won the rights that went to NBC.

I think sports leagues want to be on broadcast and streaming these days. There is just no long term future for cable only broadcasts because of the limited number of households they can reach.

CBS/Paramount and Warner Bros/Discovery have collaborated on a number of things in the past, such as the CW Network (the merger of UPN and The WB, sold to NextStar in 2022 but both maintain a combined 25% stake in it) and their joint coverage of March Madness. Hence, I've wondered if that might ultimately lead to a merger of those two.