Phillies To Hire Joe Girardi as Manager

[schillingfan]

I do think it is inarguably that the Girardi hiring brings some credibility to the team. It suggests that are a team a name manager wants to come too.

[EDmuch]

About Klentak.

[julio]

About Klentak.

Methinks you failed.

[zambonir]

They like our money too.

[jimbomill]

In a nutshell, it's a step backwards

From Kapler?
I guess we'll disagree on this one.

[bigegypt0417]

In a nutshell, it's a step backwards

From Kapler?
I guess we'll disagree on this one.

I'm not sure how in any real scenario this is a step backwards...Girardi is the right manager for this team at the right time.

[andyb]

There is a lot there. Yes I was distinguishing between the manager and the front office (management). The front office is the higher position and if they build a large analytics team and want the manager to use most of that information then they enforce that. A Sam Fuld figuring out shifts (for better or worse) with a team of geeks is going to happen under any manager. Now a good manager helps the players buy into using the analytics mentally, but to execute that it really will happen anywhere.

Dusty Baker will use analytics in 99% the same way that Gabe Kapler did because there are 20 people from the front office actually doing the work and implementing it.

Throwing out in-game short term strategic decisions for the moment, my more important field manager qualifications are to get more out of players in the long term. This means matching them with coaches that will make them better. That means resting players and using the entire 25/26 man roster to keep it fresh and engaged. It means getting players to accept roles that are not ideal to them. And it means getting them to play hard - not just running out balls, but being engaged mentally 100% of the time. It also means fostering a clubhouse of personalities that works and communication.

The 90% of the job that is not analytics and is not short term strategic decisions is what makes a good manager for me. No idea if Girardi will fit this situation, but I also think Kapler was average at best (even if I think Klentak is more to blame for the team not being good enough this year).

It is not a step backwards. It is a new face that might work when the old face was having inconsistent results.

[flyers19rw]

Megan Montemurro’s article in yesterday’s Athletic touched on Girardi’s use on analytics. One point that he made, which she included in the article, was that analytics in and of themselves have only so much value. The stats need to be put into the context of the present situation. The variables around that are immense.
The best outcome is for the manager to be able to blend stats at his disposal with circumstances that the eye can see and the brain can process considering past experiences in the game. This may be the greatest asset that Girardi possesses. He can understand stats and properly use them in his managerial position as he sees how best to utilize them from his vast experience in the game both as a player and field boss.
Additionally, in today’s Athletic, Gelb has an alarming article on the Phillies use/misuse of analytics. It seems that the program wasn’t working and had to be adjusted mid season after creating some serious issues. Also Kapler’s use of it caused problems, especially with the pitchers. Although the problems that emerged were noted, the article isn’t clear as to whom the problems should be assigned-the analysts, Klentak, or Kapler? Was Kapler’s hand being forced by Klentak or vice versa? Whatever it was a mess that I doubt that we’ll see take place under Girardi.

[andyb]

Additionally, in today’s Athletic, Gelb has an alarming article on the Phillies use/misuse of analytics. It seems that the program wasn’t working and had to be adjusted mid season after creating some serious issues

This goes to my theory that they sometimes were not that good at analytics. Their calculations might have been useful. They just did not know how to apply them to make actual human beings play better in the long run sometimes.

[zambonir]

I guess we'll disagree on this one.

That is how some of the commenters on The Athletic felt. Though I don't think the argument was that it's a step backwards from Kapler, that chapter is already over. Just that the narrow focus on a certain type of manager was a step backwards, particularly compared to other teams. The teams that have been most successful in MLB over the past five years are not hiring this type of manager, though I guess Girardi is the same type of guy Atlanta and St. Louis has (but far more proven).

I mean, listen, Klentak is still here (whether that's good or not), Middleton says he's all-in on analytics, and Girardi is not anti-analytics by any means. We're not going back to the dinosaur age, even if our attempt to get out of it remains a work in progress. But this managerial "search" could have been conducted by anyone on this board (as well as by Ruben Amaro Jr. or Ed Wade). The unwillingess to consider any other type of candidate just because they were terrified the public couldn't tolerate anything less than an experienced "name" strikes me as less than ideal, especially with an owner who was out there seeking all kind of feedback about his organization. They didn't also want that from some coaches around the league, instead of just three guys who've been out of baseball for 1-2 years? I suppose Klentak didn't push to do that because he knew he'd be wasting everyone's time.

Also seems comical now that some people thought Wathan had a chance too.

I think Girardi probably is the right manager for this team at the time but that's only because the organization and process was so flawed. Hopefully three years from now the Phillies will have won a World Series (though it's hard to see that right now just based on the roster) but I think that in five years, when we look back at the teams who hired managers this season, it won't look like we got one of the three best guys.

[flyers19rw]

Somewhere in this analytics debacle lies Chris Young. The main reason why they dismissed Rick Kranitz, who had done a very good job of bringing along some of the young pitchers, was because Young was supposedly good at applying info from analytics in ways to help the pitchers. As we have seen that didn't work out and he is down the road. Additionally, Young was Kapler's guy since, among other things, the manager had out in the open blow ups with Kranitz.
Although I may be wrong, a picture is developing that Kapler can be a fairly strong personality who runs over those with whom he disagrees and backs those that support him to the nth degree. Could it be that he overpowered Klentak in some crucial areas? Whatever; there was some dysfunction going on with this club over the last two years that is now coming out into the open. Perhaps Middleton was more than justified to step in and demand changes to be made that would get the organization back within the guard rails. Look for Girardi to help with that.

[jimbomill]

Girardi is the right manager for this team at the right time.

He is. We got the right guy in my opinion.

[el-pietro]

Joe Girardi speaks very well. I'm extremely excited about the future right now, even if I don't think the manager has that big of a role in winning and losing!

[Dirk41]

Klentak looked so uncomfortable. Girardi is incredibly likeable, though

[California_Dreamin]

Wow, talk about taking a walk down Phillies memory lane! Bob Dernier, Gary Mathews, John Vukovich, John Kruk, Charlie Manuel, Ryan Howard and the teams current player, Rhys Hoskins. All mentioned by Girardi within a 30 minute conference.

I agree that Girardi is quite likeable...and very genuine sounding. Look, Gabe Kapler may be the most genuine guy in the world but there was always a prevailing belief that he exhibited a bit of phoniness. And sadly for him, perception becomes reality, even if its not. I still recall what a key player [many thought it might be Arrieta] said about Kapler after only 5 games at the helm, as the Phils came home after a 1-4 road trip.

"We will be fine once Kapler gets out of the way and lets us play our game." My point, since I am certainly not saying that this opinion was correct. Even early on I never sensed that the players bought into Kapler and I don't believe they ever did. Oh, they liked him well enough, its hard not to like a manager who allows you to run a clubhouse and almost never speaks negatively about you publicly. But I believe the professional respect was never there.

This will certainly not be the case with Girardi and its one of the reasons that I believe Rothschild would be a good selection IF Girardi wants him. The pitchers are likely to buy into a program that is instructed by a manager that hand picked him and has had the battle scars together of playing championship baseball.

I think the biggest take I have on Girardi is this...FINALLY I believe the Phils got a guy other teams wanted and respected. No Nick Leyva, no John Felske, no Bob Skinner, no Frank Luchessi [though I liked him personally!] Joe Girardi is a guy that almost ANY team in baseball would consider for a managerial job and be able to defend their selection to an oft times skeptical fan base.

To me, this means something because it means credibility and while credibility won't get you top free agent signatures, credibility and money will.

And for once, the Phils finally have both.