Phillies News and Discussion 2025 Season

[andyb]

Last 3 outings Romano has averaged 94 something. He has not had an outing averaging 96 since July. There was a brief period in the early summer when he threw harder (up to 97 average) but that is gone now. And his location is terrible.

I frankly don't think anyone cares if he signs with someone else and does well. Did we really care about Merrifield? No. We just have better internal solutions now than Romano. Probably 3 of them at LHV (Johnson, Lazar, and Robert). Lazar can't be recalled yet but the other two can.

[zambonir]

I think they were still hoping he could turn it around though, or they just genuinely wanted the depth. He was stringing together 3-4 decent outings with one epically bad one and wasn't necessarily worse than the guys in AAA. Now it just looks stupid that they lost Lazar for 15 days. But the fact that they are even hinting at an IL stint shows they aren't fully committed to cutting him loose. What they should really do is see if he'd take an optional assignment w/o the DFA.

The timing was different with Merrifield, that was July 12 and the Phillies knew he'd catch on with another team. With Romano they only had to wait six more days to make it less attractive for another team to sign him (or for him to sign with another team). If he's hiding an injury or if his arm is shot it might not matter, but with a reliever, more than a bench player, it's easier to imagine him still signing with a relief-desperate team (which is still most of them) and being useful. Just not too easy, at this point.

The Phillies also released Merrifield. No DFA. They could do Romano that courtesy too if they want him to get another chance somewhere.

[andyb]

He was stringing together 3-4 decent outings with one epically bad one and wasn't necessarily worse than the guys in AAA.

Not really true. The only stretch of decent games in the past month was 4 games where he pitched only 3 innings with 2 Ks. Not exactly a dominant stretch. His last 17 outings:

14 IP, 17 H, 19 R, 19 ER, 6 HR, 3 BB, 11 K.

He is just getting hit and hit hard. There are no two ways around that and this is backed up by his stuff not being as good as it was 6 weeks ago. Maybe he is hurt, but he is simply not as good as the guys in Lehigh Valley period. Of course they want to figure out how to keep him perhaps with an embellished IL stint. That is because they have to pay him no matter what. But bottom line is he is terrible and the stuff right now is terrible to back up the stats. In hindsight they should have just dealt with Romano when Alvarado came back but that is water under the bridge now and a staff without Wheeler is simply going to need more and better relief pitchers. It is not a 5-alarm fire yet, but 3 of them are ringing.

[zambonir]

I didn't say he was dominant. Just decent. For the standard of an 8th reliever pitching in losses, not a higher one. Not one of his second-half outings has changed the outcome of a game, though he' obviously put a few out of reach. In 10 of the 16 games he allowed zero earned runs (not sure about inherited). 9 were hitless. Things have just gotten that much worse in the last 12 days (three bad games out of four).

He's also not really suited to that mop-up role of course. But that was the call they made when they optioned Lazar.

This is less about the overall need between now and 9/1 or overall than the fact that they need an arm tonight specifically (and also wouldn't dare let him pitch tomorrow).

[andyb]

But he was NOT decent. You are just overrating a small sample. The stuff was still mediocre in that small period of decent outings. Sometimes pitchers get lucky (BABIP!!!!!).

You are cherry picking small samples of games and ignoring lots of other data on velocity and command that shows he was still mediocre. It is also not the mop up role. It is the pitching role. He has not averaged 96 mph in consecutive outings since June and in any outing since July 20.

[zambonir]

Well, I'm not the only one ignoring it. Dombrowski, Thomson and Cotham were. I know you can't always take what they say publicly at face value but they kept pitching him. I'm pretty sure even you were still saying he wasn't necesssarily worse than Johnson or Robert 10 days ago.

The radio guys last night said Thomson wasn't trying to win the game as soon as Romano came in. That would have been true if it had been Robert, or Kolby Allard/Tyler Gilbert last year, or Covey in '23. Of course once he gave up the home run their tone changed. As did Thomson's.

[andyb]

but they kept pitching him. I'm pretty sure even you were still saying he wasn't necesssarily worse than Johnson or Robert 10 days ago.

Sometimes they are wrong. And Romano lost me more than 10 days ago. Probably 4-6 weeks ago. They were right to give him more chances especially when he flashed a little velocity in May and June but at some point performance matters. I never have been that high on Robert also. But he was competent and Romano is now clearly worse. And I always have thought Johnson was worth giving more chances because he DOES have the requisite stuff.

We all make mistakes in our posts. But sometimes just repeating what the team says publicly is worse because the job of the manager is not to badmouth their players. Even now Thomson tries to say nice things. He does err on the side of loyalty in his managing and there are probably intangible long term benefits to that, but that is really not the job of somebody looking independently at the issue. I don't love Castellanos for instance, though I am OK playing him 90% of the time because we don't have anything clearly better. With Romano at this point we do have multiple options that are clearly better.

[zambonir]

Oh I know Rob is always diplomatic as well as overly loyal but like you said they could have been decisive when it was time to activate Alvarado. Or even at the deadline, knowing they also had Robertson coming. At the time I think we still thought Ross was just a fungible as Romano. Heck I thought they might manage to trade Romano!

They should probably be giving Johnson more chances simply because he has to make the team next year.

[Philsmania]

Looks like they are ready to move on from Romano.

Phillies, haunted by postseason defeats, lose eighth straight game at Citi Field

“Again, the velocity fluctuated,” Thomson said. “The last pitch was 97 (mph). And the slider was just kind of backing up. He had six days off. We were trying to give him some rest, but now we have to really check on him tomorrow and see what’s going on.”

Frankly a DFA versus IL stint is practically the same. It might be hard to show an injury with fluctuating velocity. And when he says the last pitch was 97 it totally ignores that he is averaging a couple mph less and clearly has less command when he reaches back for more.

You can say that Romano has been historically bad.

Romano is saddled with an 8.23 ERA, the worst by a Phillies pitcher with 40-plus innings since Reggie Grabowski’s 9.23 in 1934. The Phillies have relegated Romano to low-leverage work. They have padded his outings with extra rest. They have exhausted a great deal of energy to salvage something from their $8.5 million acquisition.

He would have fit right in with that 2020 bullpen which was similarly the Phillies worst bullpen since the 1930's, albeit in a shortened season.

[zambonir]

In Grabowki's defense his ERA was only 9.00 as a reliever that year. 10.00 as a starter.

Couldn't hit either.

Orioles claimed Josh Walker, incidentally. Guess that happened a few days ago, but losing him was also part of keeping Romano.

[Philsmania]

It does seem like Romano is to this season what Walker was to last season. Despite their best efforts, each was simply really bad--arguably historically bad (IIRC somebody here posted that Walker last season was the worst non-Rockie starting pitcher in recent years while Romano has been the worst Phillies pitcher with at least 40 innings of work in 91 years)--and got largely phased out by September. A big difference is that Walker was still owed $36 million after last season--and there was a good bit of speculation that the Phillies might just decide to eat that contract to be rid of Walker. However, in the end, Walker got a chance to redeem himself this season and has been a great comeback story. Romano, just here on a one-year deal, won't get that chance.

[Callison]

Phils are being stubborn, not patient, with Romano and Ross. IMHO.

[David_Criss]

I thought for sure Ross or Romano would be the DFA casualty when Alvarado and Nola were activated. They have only shown me since then that they don't belong on this team. Johnson and Robert couldn't do worse and I think Johnson has a possible future as a pen piece.

Instead they DFAed Stevenson and Walker.

They could have kept Nolan Hoffman, too. He wouldn't do worse and has thrown pretty well at AAA. Meanwhile Phil Bickford and Lou Trivino are there, too.

[Philsmania]

I thought for sure Ross or Romano would be the DFA casualty when Alvarado and Nola were activated. They have only shown me since then that they don't belong on this team. Johnson and Robert couldn't do worse and I think Johnson has a possible future as a pen piece.

Instead they DFAed Stevenson and Walker.

They could have kept Nolan Hoffman, too. He wouldn't do worse and has thrown pretty well at AAA. Meanwhile Phil Bickford and Lou Trivino are there, too.

Yeah, it is puzzling with regard to Romano, especially considering the Phillies' recent history of being more than willing to cut guys despite significant financial commitments (Gregorious and Familia in 2022, Merrifield last season). Romano seems to be a well-liked guy in the clubhouse but so were Didi and Whit when they got cut. My only guess is that Topper (or perhaps Cotham) really likes Romano or genuinely sees some reason for hope that things may finally fall into place for him and has gone to bat for him.

[zambonir]

Ross is all right. He's the one who has the value as garbage time guy who can actually pitch multiple innings. Last night was the first time he got hit since coming off the IL. He just never quite found a niche as a higher-leverage arm the way he did with Milwaukee last year. Ostensibly he was also being paid as an emergency #6 starter but that was something the Phillies never needed with Walker coming back strong (as well as Abel at the time).

At this time last year we were still throwing 5th starters against the wall (including Walker) and had Mercado and Lazar in the bullpen. Tyler Gilbert pitched in four losses (and one 12-2 win) in September. He was probably better than Romano is right now, but it's still not that big a deal.

[Austinfan]

Romano's real problem isn't the loss of velocity, it's that his slider is no longer a plus pitch.
Put a fork in him, he's cooked.

Think they made the right move with Johnson, he has ML stuff but needed regular work, not coming out of the back of the bullpen on an erratic schedule.
Problem is no one else at Lehigh has stepped up and forced his way to the Show.
Same at Reading.
McFarlane has been moved to the pen, but he's probably going to the AFL then get a look next spring.

[andyb]

McFarlane was moved to the bullpen because of seasonal inning limits. Maybe they will do so eventually, but this year's move is NOT a permanent move at all.

I think there are zero qualms about how often Seth Johnson pitches also. He has decent stuff and the ability to go multiple innings, so he is actually suited towards either type of role. And they need to decide if he is part of next year's bullpen when he is out of options.

[zambonir]

It's just not much of a problem is all. They added three guys in August. Lazar will be back on September 1. The Wheeler injury does create a slight wrinkle in that we can't be sure Luzardo and Walker will both be dedicated playoff relievers, with the former replacing Alvarado.

But they need an arm in the pen tonight or tomorrow (at least in reserve) so something has to happen. Bringing up Johnson makes the most sense if they want to keep him up. But they could also bring back Rangel or Robert, whether it's for a few days or indefinitely. Hoffman's still below all those guys and can't be recalled yet anyway.

If they DFA that does also open up a 40-man spot. Plus Wheeler isn't on the 60 yet.

[Austinfan]

That's not the issue with Johnson.

They moved him to the pen this season, so unless there's a real need, he was better off in Lehigh pitching on a regular basis in a higher leverage role than mop up duty in the Show. He needs the experience right now.

[David_Criss]

Will they make a decision today? They could use another bullpen arm. LeHigh is in Omaha. Rangel pitched 5 innings on Sunday. Robert and Johnson are rested. Jack Dallas is with Reading, which is home. If they go that route, Wheeler to the 60 or Ramano DFA easily opens up a 40-man spot.