Phillies News and Discussion 2025 Season

[Jazzhead]

Oh man. He was in the best shape of his life!

Oh boy, is that a textbook example of an ironic statement!

[Jazzhead]

Though one might wonder if moving Ranger back to closer or co-closer with Painter joining the rotation in a few weeks is the best move to make - baseball and prospect-wise in terms of trades.

That IS probably the best move to make. You'd think in these days of Ohtani baseball executives (and player agents) would see the value of multi-positionality. Ranger has had a couple of solid starts now and has established that he's back. If he could now proceed to save the Phillies season by effectively converting to closer, wouldn't that have value to Ranger and his agent vis a vis his free agency?

What's best for the team is also what's best for Ranger. IMO.

[zambonir]

But "a few" is not six

[zambonir]

Nobody values a closer more than a good starter though. Why do you think Jeff Hoffman tried to switch? Can't compare that to Ohtani or a multi position guy.

As a reliever Ranger might get three years $45. As a starter four years 80 (if he has a good year). The stress of reliever usage could also be a different injury risk, or just harder to manage what is chronic.

In the end he might not get a choice but it is not a simple or easy one.

[Jazzhead]

Jeff Hoffman tried, but Ranger has gone from starter to closer and back again. He's proven he's multi-positional. How can that hurt him in free agency?

Heck, just let him close until after the deadline when another arm can be found. If we knew we could retain him, then using him as the closer for the rest of the year would be ideal in terms of keeping our prospect powder dry. But since we don't, use him at least to bridge the gap, spend what it takes at the deadline to get the new arm, and then put him back in the rotation from mid-August. He's done it before. He's a unique, multi-positional talent.

[andyb]

We'll see how good a manager Thomson is with all of this. When he started he was very experimental in the bullpen. If Abel is for real and Painter comes up we might see him manage a roster with a great rotation and a bunch of long relievers who can certainly carry strikeout stuff for 2-3 innings.

A creative manager figures out how to get the most out of this rather than stick to traditional roles.

[Jazzhead]

Will they option Abel back to the minors after he just tied Curt Simmons for most Ks in a Phillies MLB debut? Heck, at a minimum he could fill Walker's role.

[VoteForKalas]

The Alvarado news is a blow. Tough news to get about the playoffs too. Yikes.

Bullpen was already an issue and now they will need to make at least one acquisition since we'll likely need Walker, Suarez et al. In the rotation at some point.

Also, who is responsible for checking out the supplements these players take? Can't the player or his reps get permission from MLB to take certain things or have them tested to make sure they do not contain banned substances? Should the Phillies be aware of and have those substances checked out? Are there established protocols for handling these situations? Seems like everyone was surprised by this and never did their homework.

[andyb]

I think they option him back and see how well Walker does next time out. Nola should be a 15-day minimum stay on the IL also, so the reality is for now you let Abel continue to build confidence in AAA.

[zambonir]

I still think a lot of these guys just cheat. Some of them get caught for the masking agents, not the drugs. And the testing is random and it's possible to get lucky with the timing or not get tested at all I'm fairly sure.

Phillies survived when Alvarado went on the disabled list twice in one season and they survived last year when he wasn't even that good and neither were Ser Anthony or Soto. They're going to need some help and it would be good if some people stepped up But there's a reason relievers are the lowest paid players except for those 5 or 10 elite guys in the league (and then deliver several overpaid seasons inevitably).

[xogfog]

Any news on McGarry? I always thought his arm would play well in the bullpen if he could throw strikes.

[julio]

But "a few" is not six

That’s debatable, and dependent on context. (If “many” is 12, six is not “few.” If “many” is 26, six is few.)

[Austinfan]

Let's not jump the gun on Abel.
Great start, but I think he needs to finish the year in Lehigh.
Last couple innings he lost command of his slider and was basically a FB/curve pitcher.
And his changeup (needed against ML LH hitters) is a work in progress.

He could get away with that against a weak hitting team like the Pirates, but the Dodgers, Mets, etc.?

[andyb]

Painter is really only a couple starts till he is fully stretched out. The big question is how much he still has to learn in the minors. Ideally they don't need him right away with Nola coming back strong,, but the priority is always what is best for the big club. I hope the Phillies don't really need him until after the All Star break. I just don't know that yet.

[VoteForKalas]

Still much better than a bad outing. He should feel very good about his performance today and the organization should too. Each step in the right direction should be reinforced with praise and confidence.

[zambonir]

Jeff Hoffman tried, but Ranger has gone from starter to closer and back again. He's proven he's multi-positional. How can that hurt him in free agency?

Heck, just let him close until after the deadline when another arm can be found. If we knew we could retain him, then using him as the closer for the rest of the year would be ideal in terms of keeping our prospect powder dry. But since we don't, use him at least to bridge the gap, spend what it takes at the deadline to get the new arm, and then put him back in the rotation from mid-August. He's done it before. He's a unique, multi-positional talent.

I think we might be overstating both Ranger's history as a reliever and his value as a starter. He hasn't pitched out of the bullpen regularly since 2021 and was moved back to starter in August of that same year. His subsequent relief appearances have been less because he's magically flexible or experienced as just, the normal thing good starting pitchers do in the post-season (it's only happened twice over three years, both in 2022 and never since).

At the same time he was neither durable enough nor impressive enough of as a starter to keep the Phillies from paying Walker like he was going to replace Eflin as the #3 in 2023. And Walker did produce more WAR than Ranger that season, while they both had ERAs over 4.0. That was the year Ranger started on the IL thought he was plainly the better pitcher in the second half.

And then came 2024 and he was an all-star/Cy Young candidate for the first half, and it all went bad. So yeah, it's possible his value as a starter isn't that different than his value as a reliever. But clearly his goal this season was to rebuild the former.

I think it's moot for now, and if it really turns out the Phillies have so much healthy pitching depth that they consider it, the value play is probably still to trade Ranger. Because an above average SP is worth more than an above average RP every time.

[zambonir]

That’s debatable, and dependent on context. (If “many” is 12, six is not “few.” If “many” is 26, six is few.)

I guess. I've always thought of it as no more than 3 or 4 (but more than a couple). Webster's says "only a small number" and "indeterminately small."

I guess only andy can say for sure if by a few he meant Painter could be considered in 2-3 weeks, rather than four, five or six. But I think his timeline as currently planned is still at least eight (I.e. after the All-Star break, not July 1). And I just don't see losing one reliever, even your best one, as a crisis. Not having him in the post-season is a bigger deal, but also one that doesn't have to be addressed yet.

It will also mean the Phillies have to decide whether to pick up his option. If he comes back from the suspension and isn't sharp (or worse, out of shape), probably not.

[Callison]

Alvarado surely knows better. Makes you wonder if he's only at the top of his game with chemical assistance. The Phils' pen was already shaky. Unlikely the replacement will be as good as Alvarado at the top of his game. The Phils are neither good nor lucky shopping the bargain basement for players.

Think it was Reuben who told us after the game that Abel was getting sent down. That Walker would be starting. IMHO, dominant performance like Abel's needs to be rewarded and I would keep him in the rotation. Nola's spot is open. Walker already has a role: long closer. I would leave him there. Saw Middleton congratulating Abel. Great performance, son. Pack your bags.

Great pitchers' duel today. Just when you think everybody who plays LF for the Phils will hover around Mendoza and never contribute, Kepler gets a key hit. Still not doing nearly enough and here's hoping Wilson gets more PT.

[Jazzhead]

if it really turns out the Phillies have so much healthy pitching depth that they consider it, the value play is probably still to trade Ranger. Because an above average SP is worth more than an above average RP every time.

I agree.

[RolenRules]

Hopefully Romano can continue to pitch well. If so, he slides in to the primary closer role. And maybe somebody from AAA steps up and fills a role in the BP.