Phillies acquire Jay Bruce from Mariners (for Jake Scheiner)

[David_Criss]

If I made a list of available players I thought the Phillies should target, Jay Bruce wouldn't make the top 10, but for a utility A ball player - this is a good move. This allows Williams to get some regular at bats at AAA and hopefully increasing any trade value he might have. Wondering what the next move is.

[zambonir]

That is not really true. The monrhly OPS data hides it. Starting March 30th he hit 7 home runs in 8 games. The day after that streak he had an OPS of 972. Batting average as only .204 but the home runs came in a big streak.

Since then he recovered to have a decent May, but take away that streak and his OPS is probably in the low 700s.

Fair enough. The press release also highlights his decent May:

In his last 17 games, Bruce is hitting .281 with a .905 OPS.

I just don't have much faith in NIck Williams helping the 2019 Phillies. Even if Bruce ends up with a .700 OPS there's just no reason to think Williams was going to get back there this year, and Quinn's not there either (assuming he can play). Nor Herrera for that matter. And I just can't imagine he's going to get four starts a week, but he certainly won't get them if he doesn't produce.

Will be interesting to see what coming back to the NL does for him too.

[Austinfan]

This is a great move, Scheiner was a utility man at best and not exactly young. And we have LA IFs coming out of our ears who can fill that role, maybe not as much power, but better fielders. And guys like Maton.
Very little cost in terms of cap this year or next, and Bruce gives you a LH power bat off the bench.

Williams is a goner, but we knew that, with Haseley at AAA, his days were numbered in any case due to his below average defense (how much worse is Bruce?). So look for him to be moved for a minor league pitcher or RP.

Question is why did Seattle take so little in terms of money or prospects?

[zambonir]

'Cause Jerry loves Matt.

[phillychuck]

Scheiner is a guy I really liked coming out of Lakewood last year, and he's been hitting OK over the last month or so I think (.275 with a 700 OPS), almost never strikes out, doesn't't really walk enough either. I would personally, as a minor league fan, rather have kept him and rolled with what we have in the OF in Philly, but it's not a bad trade at all.

[allentown]

Turned out not to be a bad trade. The money doesn't handcuff us and Scheiner highly unlikely to become an MLB starter. I admit, I probably have a higher view of Delossantos than I should, but I would have hated to lose him. It takes a lot of pitchers to make it through an MLB season, unless you have incredible luck on injuries and we haven't been lucky this year.

[zambonir]

I don't mind losing De Los Santos, but only for our new #3 starter.

[VoteForKalas]

Getting Bruce for 2.75M over 1.5 seasons and a limited prospect looks like a good deal.

The key is, if Bruce does not perform, will the Phillies continue to play him or will they cut ties and move on for better internal or external options.

That will tell us if this really is a new Phillies organization or one with the same vet first approach of the past.

[VoteForKalas]

Because Bruce is not that good, best days are well behind him

[andyb]

At that salary if Bruce stops producing or they decide they need a real CF then they can just release him.

The whole January timing of that payment seems weird also. Do the Mariners have cash flow issues. It is like a 7-month loan the Phillies are giving them.

[zambonir]

Ah, Phillies TPTB PTSD, one never gets over it!

I think if the Phillies were paying more of Bruce's salary that might be a concern. He's also playing pretty well now - for the role they want him in (part-time starter/bench guy) and lacking any better internal options.

As for external options, if he doesn't work out, sure, and they could still use someone who can play CF. But at what price? Such a player is either going to be expensive or won't have a bat. Plenty of time to see how things shake out.

Klentak very graciously has referenced what Bruce's role might be for the next year-and-a-half, and I think he's a perfectly good, bat-only bench option next year if necessary. But also utterly tradeable/releaseable.

This is hardly a blockbuster deal - barely different than getting Bour or Bautista last year. "Better than Nick Williams/Phil Gosselin" is the only bar he has to clear for now.

I do think we're also a little quick to dismiss Bruce as being past his prime. He had a tough year last year (including injury) and we all know how old he is. But when he shows up for work tomorrow he immediately becomes the second-highest OPS+ on the team (4th in regular OPS). What's weird is he has reverse splits this year but the HRs have mostly come off righties, and the career OPS (.815) against them is almost exactly the same as his 2019 overall OPS.

[LoneStarPhan]

Looks like a good pickup to me. There is no doubt there is a need for another left hand bat to come off the bench to pinch hit and get a couple starts a week. Bruce is not that old that he cannot be productive for another couple years in a part time starter/bench role. The cost is reasonable IMO.

[VoteForKalas]

At that salary if Bruce stops producing or they decide they need a real CF then they can just release him.

Sure, the issue is will they if confronted by that reality.

[VoteForKalas]

Ah, Phillies TPTB PTSD, one never gets over it!

So true, burned too many times to ignore it

However, It is a perfectly legit question - as the team gets more and more veteran as we started to see last season and definitely during this off-season and now with this trade, it is worth asking if TPTB have learned any lessons about handling vets versus prospects and if they have any inherent preferences that could impact the performance of the team.

[bigegypt0417]

he's not tha good but still can hit the long ball which is why I believe he's here...

[Lawman]

Exactly. Bruce is a LH power bat off the bench.

[Philsmania]

Getting Bruce for 2.75M over 1.5 seasons and a limited prospect looks like a good deal.

The key is, if Bruce does not perform, will the Phillies continue to play him or will they cut ties and move on for better internal or external options.

That will tell us if this really is a new Phillies organization or one with the same vet first approach of the past.

It all makes me wonder what DiPoto is thinking with this deal. Usually, when a team sends a mound of cash with a veteran player, it is done for the purpose of getting a valuable prospect in return. This is marginally better than a full-bore release of Bruce. Is it possible the Mariners were considering doing that? If the Phillies have decided that they are done with Herrera, will this be the template for how he is moved (acquiring team sends back a symbolic return and pays a symbolic share of his salary)?

[Lawman]

Mariners are in full blow salary dump/fire sale mode according to multiple reports.

[Philsmania]

Mariners are in full blow salary dump/fire sale mode according to multiple reports.

Yes, but the Mariners didn't exactly dump Bruce's salary. They are on the hook for most of it. Hence, this strikes me as something of a "we were probably going to release him and this lets us save a little face and money" kind of move.

[Lawman]

I know, but clearing roster space?