Non-Phillies 2023 Major League Season Discussion

phillychuck 2023-09-07 23:04:44 UTC #362

"Sure, we will claim Grichuk, but you need to help us out next time..." "What can you do for us?"

schillingfan 2023-09-08 00:21:31 UTC #363

That’s called ping them a solid! Perfectly legal.

zambonir 2023-09-08 01:16:08 UTC #364

I thought the Angels move with Stassi solved their tax issue.

Teams were just scared of Grichuk's health and slump. But now he's come around. For whatever reason one team preferred Renfroe too. And most teams are still that cheap!

The fact that he's a better hitter than Cave even from the wrong side is depressing. Still think Phillies should be playing Rojas and Pache more. That's the path they supposedly chose.

Lucky_Beagle 2023-09-08 01:34:48 UTC #365

This isn't an example of a negotiated compensation.

zambonir 2023-09-08 11:58:56 UTC #366

It would of course be illegal to even have that conversation, and MLB would also likely scrutinize any deals next year between the Angels and the claiming team if there was even a whisper of it.

So are they or are they not still over the CBT after the Stassi move?

Philsmania 2023-09-08 14:16:04 UTC #367

I remember in 2007 when the White Sox basically gave the Phillies Iguchi (for Rich Dubee's son who wasn't really a prospect), some wondered if that was a "makeup" for Garcia working out so badly for the Phillies that season.

zambonir 2023-09-08 14:30:35 UTC #368

Yeah but that wasn't even an August trade. Just a salary dump for a very average and not especially young pending FA who just happened to catch fire for the Phillies for a bit. It was fair value for him. We remember him fondly but he wasn't really much better than Michael Young was when the Phillies traded him away (in fact the somewhat older Young had a 103 OPS+ that year to Iguchi's 88 with the Sox in '07).

When teams trade with each other frequently it's safe to assume the GMs (or other staff) get along, and favors can get done in that context without it being so specific. Phillies have that with the Tigers right now.

Philsmania 2023-09-08 17:40:50 UTC #369

And with the Angels (two deadline deals in one day last year)?

bkox 2023-09-08 23:46:22 UTC #370

At the same time, the owner’s statement implied that a formal retirement was not imminent. He concluded by saying the team “(looks) forward to seeing Stephen when (they) report to Spring Training.” It seems they plan to carry him on the 40-man roster throughout the winter.

zambonir 2023-09-09 03:37:04 UTC #371

Well, the Nats are certainly not obligated to pay him if he retires but he's also not obligated to retire. They could release him or yeah, just carry him and then put him back on the 60. That's what the Phillies did with Cliff Lee, who wasn't retiring but also wasn't going to have surgery to try and pitch again.

It's just a big mess regardless. They were trying for a PR win and got an even bigger PR loss.

bkox 2023-09-09 15:20:12 UTC #372

Never want a pitcher with his kind of attitude on the Phillies

"I wish I wasn't out there for the seventh to be honest," Kirby said (via KING 5's Jake García). "I was at 90 pitches and I didn't think I needed to go anymore, but, you know, it is what it is."

"It'll be a conversation soon."

Presumably the conversation he mentions will take place with manager Scott Servais and/or pitching coach Pete Woodworth.

allentown 2023-09-09 15:34:25 UTC #373

I appreciate his honesty. In most cases, with the way pitchers pitch today, it is pitcher abuse to have almost all pitchers throw over 100 pitches. It also doesn't help the team as we see a rise in pitching injuries and as pitchers often follow these 100+ pitch games with a clunker. You simply can't have today's high-rotation rates and blazing FB and expect the number of pitches per game and IP per season as in the past. Also, the mound was higher in the olden days and umpires called the high strike.

zambonir 2023-09-09 15:44:50 UTC #374

Doesn't seem like an attitude to me. If your team is paying 10 people in the front office to manage pitch counts and match-ups I'd rather have a pitcher who's on board than not. Maybe he didn't need to say it out loud but it happens (and they usually say it out loud when they are mad to get pulled early too).

zambonir 2023-09-10 01:31:59 UTC #375

allentown 2023-09-10 02:38:13 UTC #376

They're talking about an AS who has already pitched 166 innings and logged 3.0 bWAR. He pitched a 9-inning, 3-hit shutout on Aug 12 and 4 subpar games since then. Dinosaurs who refuse to admit that the game has changed. Kirby is only 25; I'd love to have him in the Phillies rotation.

Philsmania 2023-09-10 02:49:57 UTC #377

But has the game changed for the better, vis-a-vis an enjoyable product for the fans to consume? By perfecting the game, are they destroying it? Numbers say Three True Outcomes are the way to go go. But, as a product for fans, it's disgusting and unwatchable.

zambonir 2023-09-10 02:53:16 UTC #378

No probably not but can we get these guys to throw with 1974 velocity and mechanics?

Philsmania 2023-09-10 02:54:56 UTC #379

Is velocity REALLY better?

bkox 2023-09-10 03:56:50 UTC #380

I dont think it is.. but how do you get them to go back. I kinda blame Aroldis Chapman even if its not his fault. When he threw that 105 MPH pitch after he defected, it seemed to open the floodgates.

The other thing though... with all the talk about velocity... I think breaking pitches have changed too and maybe its just because they are faster too.. but some of these wipe out sliders (sweeper?) move in ways I dont remember seeing when I started following baseball in the 80s. And its those pitches that our hitters (casty etc) seems to struggle with when they sweep outside the strike zone.

allentown 2023-09-10 11:50:55 UTC #381

I think it probably has. The clock has certainly made the game more enjoyable for the fans. But, I don't think that's the key point. The teams and analytics staff have studied what leads to winning teams and successful pitchers. I don't think winning teams abuse their pitchers. They know that high-spin rate and high FB velocity yield results and they know the mechanics and conditioning that produce them. This is like asking whether the fans find NFL football which has reduced the valuation of running backs and barely mobile QBs, while increasing their valuation of linemen and highly mobile QBs more enjoyable. Fans want their teams to win. That is what sparks fan interest. I do find mobile QBs to be more exciting. I also enjoy watching the DL, especially the edge rushers. NFL teams have determined where to spend the $ to maximize the chance of winning.

Btw, given the long 162-game season, as a fan I'm more interested in reaching the playoffs and getting back to the WS than I am in a single game, like Lorenzen's no-no. His Phillies games prior to that were very good, that game would have also been very good if he were relieved after 7 IP. We would have been spared the subsequent poor outings and the Phillies would be closer to the team goal. Certainly, the fans who saw the no-no will never forget it. But, just one game in a very long season and the playoffs are far more exciting than the regular season.