Minor League Games - September 8, 2021

[andyb]

Not really missing the point here. I do fail to understand why you need to lecture us on how to pitch, but the point is that Brogdon throwing 96-98 is a much, much more effective pitcher than when Brogdon has an outing where he is more 93-95. Suarez is better when he throws 95 than he throws 92. Irvin is better at 92-93 than 88-89.

The point that you are consistently missing is that MLB prizes velocity and develops it. We send guys like Brogdon and Suarez to Driveline-type instruction to increase their velocity. Why would they do that if it were not important. Nobody has ever argued we should not teach command and control. Nobody. But you keep expounding on it for some reason. Draft recommendations should be in the draft thread. Here we try to evaluate guys like Gessner based on their tools and whether that translates into them being a good prospects.

MLB tries to increase velocity in their prospects because it works.

[bigegypt0417]

It's not an attack...it is his standard argument and one he's made for years. I'm simply stating that his reasons for not putting a value on velocity is something understood by everyone. Without command, velocity is not important. How is it exactly and attack to point out his history of putting very little stock in something which is now at the forefront of player development?

He has not recently devalued velocity...he has always devalued velocity.

I don't believe pointing out the obviousness of a point is an attack.

[Austinfan]

I don't devalue velocity, I just don't see it as the be all and end all.
Suarez is a much better pitcher than VV or Pivetta, although they throw 2 MPH faster on average.
Nola has been a top pitcher throwing 92-93, t95, not 94-96, t98.

Sure you want pitchers to throw harder, but only within their general progress, that is, not by focusing on velocity per se, but by physical training and tweaking and perfecting their mechanics. The purpose of getting stronger and building stamina is to throw harder without more effort, to build stamina and provide a foundation for pitching, not throwing.

For example, Falter would be much better off focusing on developing three pitches he can throw consistently and with command than spend the offseason trying to add another 1 MPH to his FB. Whether he throws 92 or 93 or 94, it's not fast enough to consistently get by ML hitters if he can't command it and keep hitters off balance by throwing a changeup and slider for strikes. Otherwise they'll just sit on that FB and spit on his other pitches.

Kennedy didn't lose that game b/c his FB is 94 instead of 96, he lost b/c his curveball broke waist high instead of diving below the knees.

[zambonir]

Suarez is a much better pitcher than VV or Pivetta, although they throw 2 MPH faster on average.

Seems a little early to say this. I think Pivetta is doing almost as well as Nola this season (not that that is a compliment).

But otherwise, there's nothing to debate. Literally nobody thinks velocity is the be all and end all.

[andyb]

Suarez also throws harder than VV these days. 93.94 vs 93.32. Suarez is throwing almost 2 mph faster than in 2018-2020. Velocity matters. Bailey Falter also probably does not get close to the majors if he were throwing 88 like when we drafted him. He is a little over 92 on average this year.

[bigegypt0417]

Suarez is a much better pitcher than VV or Pivetta, although they throw 2 MPH faster on average.

But otherwise, there's nothing to debate. Literally nobody thinks velocity is the be all and end all.

I think that's the point everyone is trying to make...I havent seen a single post where someone has said anything near that. Velocity with command and secondary pitches...that's a high level prospect...a pitcher who throws in the low 90's with command and secondary pitches is a back of the rotation starter in almost every case.

Velocity is just a much better place to start.

[Austinfan]

Suarez
two years ago: 2 seamer, 92.0, t95, 4 seamer 92.9, t95
this year: 2 seamer 93.1, t96, 4 seamer 93.9, t96

Nola, 2 seamer, 92, t95, 4 seamer, 93, t96 the last few years.

[kikutaro]

But Suarez was exclusively a relief pitcher 2 years ago, so ticking up this year while starting is quite an improvement, isn't it?