Klentak has stepped down

[julio]

I’d have to go back and look, but my recollection is that the major concern with Dombrowski was that he would shred the farm for short-term success…and that has not happened. Yeah, O’Hoppe — but for a 24-year old with upside, not for a veteran who will be outta here in two years. Ben Brown? We’ll see, but TINSTAAPP; Brown may or may not have a major league career. Robertson helped.

I can’t fault Dombrowski here. Painter, Abel, McGarry…none of them was ever even on the table.

[zambonir]

Yup, he has walked the tightrope admirably. As andy said, we'll see if it's sustainable, short or medium-term. Nothing's guaranteed as the Giants, White Sox and Brewers can tell you this year.

Of course having done what they've already done and possibly more, if they come back next year and are in the thick of the division race, one those top 3 pitchers could yet be on the table.. or the rotation! (or both).

[allentown]

we'll see if it's sustainable, short or medium-term.

The strategy is sustainable. Getting as far in the playoffs as we have is unlikely to happen with consistency (our 100+ win team from golden age fared poorly in playoffs, which involve a ton of randomness in a very few games), but I think the strategy is sustainable. If we improve our international scouting/development side we can improve upon it. Two big benefits from this title run: Middleton is a lot likelier to continue to spend big than if we missed playoffs or made them and were ejected in wildcard round (attendance will be up and he's had some success and pride for his $) and this makes the Phillies more of a desirable target for FAs and over-25 international players (should we be willing to go that route). Hopefully, it also provides some stability in organizational philosophy, coaching methods, and baseball-side personnel. Success breeds poaching, but also creates job satisfaction, contentment of management with their reports and the ability to attract talented replacements for those who are poached. We are losing some significant contracts this off-season, permitting a big FA/extensions.

[zambonir]

I think that's probably right. If Fuld and Mattingly hold up their end and Barber continues to draft well they will eventually get a better mix, while always having the hammer of wealth to fill holes (just hopefully, fewer of them).

But, let's see if it's actually a consistent strategy. They could come out of this run and hand out fat extensions to Nola and Rhys while signing Turner and a Edwin Diaz, trade Painter next deadline and then be stuck holding the bag on a middling team by 2025. I don't really think they'll do that but you never know.

And also, of course, they took a big step this year by getting three young players into the starting line-up but still really need a homegrown star (i.e., repeat all-star, serious MVP candidate) or two to emerge as Bryce, JT and Schwarber fade. I do hope Stott is one of them (as opposed to just a very good player).

Per the subject of this ancient thread: as with the last playoff era, the guy that deservedly lost his job still laid down a lot of the foundation. Heck, Nola was Ruben's, even. But Wheeler, JT, Bryce, Bohm, Stott, O'Hoppe, Segura.... I really think the problem was MacPhail (obviously!) not Klentak. Klentak should have been in the Fuld role, but MacPhail didn't want to actually run things (and wouldn't have been good at it anyway).

[nycphils]

Dombrowski’s track record is quite good at selecting the correct prospects to deal - not flawless, but no one’s is. The Spencer Howard deal is looking like a good example of dealing a guy who isn’t as good as the hype - can’t stay healthy and has been abysmal in 29 starts in the majors over pieces of 3 seasons (and is now 26 years old) - while Gibson contributed this year and last.

[andyb]

Painter does seem good enough that planning for him to be in the rotation is a good strategy. Everyone else might be trade bait in the right situation.

They'll still need to spend money but they can probably get under the luxury tax line next year and evaluate at midseason what they need (i.e. trade for expensive players that will cost prospects).

[German41]

They could have 3/5 of a rotation with Painter, Abel and McGarry. Probably safe to assume that 2 out of 3 are legit. Resign one of Wheeler/Nola, use Suarez at least as a 4/5 bridge and look to trade Hoskins for a young starter candidate. Add Rojas, Lee, two Latin shortstop prospects and Crawford and we have cheap, homegrown talent to sustain.

[schillingfan]

I think a lot of us could be hung out to dry with comments we have made previously to the last week.

One just never knows.

Forget last week during the Eagles game last night, I, along with other fans, was Ellington at the Eagles during the3rd quarter that they were idiots who were going to lose to the Cowboys.

[zambonir]

look to trade Hoskins for a young starter candidate.

somehow we started the hot stove thread again already!

(He won't get traded. He's still too much the heart of the team and yet, paradoxically, also not valuable enough given his salary & contract status.)

[allentown]

That was certainly the right critique at the time. The offense wasn't clicking or adjusting well to either the changes made by Dallas and the loss of Johnson. The defense was back in prevent mode and allowing a steady march down field and unable to stave off the Dallas double teaming our DTs. It seemed the Eagles finally adapted in the 4th Qtr with the final TD drive and the D coaches finally deciding they needed to play tighter D and not just hope to run out the clock. Eagles have been a poor second half team after being a brilliant 2nd Qtr team in many of their games. They need to learn to keep the pedal to the metal.

[zambonir]

Might a new record for going off-topic!

[Mac]

roasted

[andyb]

Is it just a coincidence that Klentak is gone and the Eagles are good?

[Philsmania]

The Spencer Howard deal is looking like a good example of dealing a guy who isn’t as good as the hype - can’t stay healthy and has been abysmal in 29 starts in the majors over pieces of 3 seasons (and is now 26 years old) - while Gibson contributed this year and last.

This doesn't reflect on anyone's judgment but, to think, Howard's emergence supposedly made Sixto Sanchez available. So far, neither is working out. You summarize Howard's woes well and Sanchez is pretty much an injury reclamation project for the Marlins (and the Realmuto deal looks like a heist orchestrated by Klentak, to his credit).

[zambonir]

TNSTAAPP (except for the current three guys)

[allentown]

We have had only 3 4 first round picks in the past couple decades who became stars, or at least clearly above average players for us: Utley, Hamels, Nola, and arguably Burrell. If they stay healthy and have just normal development trajectories, then Painter and Abel can join that list within the next two seasons. McGarry in the rotation next season, possibly out of ST. Painter or Abel by end of next season.

[Philsmania]

We have had only 3 4 first round picks in the past couple decades who became stars, or at least clearly above average players for us: Utley, Hamels, Nola, and arguably Burrell. If they stay healthy and have just normal development trajectories, then Painter and Abel can join that list within the next two seasons. McGarry in the rotation next season, possibly out of ST. Painter or Abel by end of next season.

Talk of monster rotations in the minors scares me. Remember the Piedmont Young Guns in 1995 (Burger, Coggin, Kershner and Knoll) or, around the same time, the Mets' Generation K (Isringhausen, Pulsipher and Wilson)? Speaking of the Young Guns, check out the below article, the second paragraph of which has more recent blast from the past names (Cosart, Colvin, May, Pettibone & Rodriguez).

'Young Guns' from 1995 offer cautionary tale

[andyb]

I consider Painter to be in another category compared to Abel and McGarry. I am pretty sure he'll be good if healthy. The other two are really 50-50 in terms of whether they will pan out and be at least average healthy starters. Abel might be a touch above Howard as a prospect, but he is also not a better prospect than Sanchez was. McGarry also has some bullpen risk.

To me I think Painter is close to untouchable. The other two would depend on the deal.

[Mac]

I agree with you entirely. Painter has to be untouchable between the talent, the body and the financials. The club needs performers like that to offset the big $.

[allentown]

I consider Painter to be in another category compared to Abel and McGarry.

I do too. Abel and McGarry have the strikeout stuff, but both still have troublesome walk rates.