July 2, 2018 International Signing Period

[Austinfan]

They may have been making roster room for Jones, but they could have waited until July to do so.

[zambonir]

I would agree they intend to use it; it's possible they won't succeed in their intentions. Filling the hole at AAA can be done easily enough, whether from within the system or on the waiver wire (plus if the relievers are starting to come back at the end of the week they won't necessarily need the Pigs starters quite as often).

[julio]

They may have been making roster room for Jones, but they could have waited until July to do so.

Damon Jones? He's having a good season, but he's in high-A (Clearwater); you're suggesting the Phils are about to double-jump him?

Also don't follow the "roster" reference; Eshelman is not on the 40-man roster.

[bigegypt0417]

This could be the reason...

Christian J. Stewart on Twitter

[Austinfan]

Jones to AA, one of the Reading starters to Lehigh to replace Eshelman.

[fish]

twitter.com

Christian J. Stewart on Twitter

“Add another HarbourCat who has signed with a pro franchise! Congrats to Josh Gessner and best of luck in the Phillies Organization! https://t.co/ExUqWoYJrF #YYJHarbourCats #YourSummerLivesHere #MLB #PhiladelphiaPhillies #YYJBaseball #YYJSports”

Good find. 18 year old righty out of Sydney, signed away from a commitment to Tulane. Seems like a 100-200k signing.

[zambonir]

Credit to Matt I suspect

Matt Winkelman on Twitter

[andyb]

Hard to know if this signing required the extra slot, though possible. The current year period ends 6/15 though, so we'll find out relatively quickly.

[zambonir]

Well it probably did not require the reported slot(s) which would be $500K right? But it's entirely possible they got it to use on multiple lottery tickets.

[fish]

Wow, the deal was for 1 million in slots.

[Squire]

Where are you seeing that?

[andyb]

Where are you seeing that?

Vinny Velo is the last man standing from Matt Klentak’s first big trade

I am assuming that Asia and Cuba are probably the only places they could spend this much money in the last couple of days. The Aussie seems more the $100K-$200K type.

[Austinfan]

Well, these slots had zero value for Baltimore.

[Squire]

I agree with this as well.

[andyb]

While people dismiss Eshelman, I will say that he had some value. His last half dozen starts were quite good to the point where one could see him back to where he was in 2017 in AAA. He would be like our 10th starter (and maybe 6th or 7th for Baltimore), but if he put 10 more good starts together he would at least be a good supplemental prospect in a larger trade.

Short answer is that while these slots had little value, we also would not have acquired them unless we intend to use them. I kind of wish we did this 10 months ago when there were lots more players out there that were worthy of large bonuses, but at least this is something.

There will be many fewer trades of slots next year as there are no longer teams in the penalty. Even Baltimore will likely spend their international money with their new analytical team (and next year's class will have more opportunities than spending it now).

[bkeich]

I kind of wish we did this 10 months ago when there were lots more players out there that were worthy of large bonuses, but at least this is something.

Only if it gets spent. Honestly, we were not going to protect Eshelman, but I am not sure he would have been taken. He might have been taken and used as a reliever, but as a starter he almost certainly will not succeed in the majors. (he was passed over once in the Rule V already, so he might have just been a FA after this year??, but I think he is still 1 year short of that)

[julio]

Only if it gets spent. Honestly, we were not going to protect Eshelman, but I am not sure he would have been taken. He might have been taken and used as a reliever, but as a starter he almost certainly will not succeed in the majors. (he was passed over once in the Rule V already, so he might have just been a FA after this year??, but I think he is still 1 year short of that)

Yes, the international pool slots are only of value if they're used. But the Phils wouldn't have made this deal unless they intended to use the slots. Does anybody disagree with that? I just don't see any other explanation for the trade.

If they just wanted to get rid of Eshelman (the AF argument), and didn't have an immediate need for international pool space, then the rational trade, with the Orioles or somebody else, would have been for another minor-leaguer...and clubs can always make such deals. That they traded for pool slots, and not for some AAA filler (they could use an outfielder at AAA, for example), tells me that they wanted the pool slots - and that implies that they have a specific use in mind, at this late date in the signing period.

Eshelman will be eligible for minor-league free agency after the 2021 season. He was Rule 5 eligible last December, and not protected (and not drafted). That was before his month-long implosion this spring, so I don't think his perceived value has increased. So I agree, there's no way he was going to be added to the 40-man this winter - his only path to the Phils' 40-man roster would have been if he pitched lights-out in AAA, and still more other starting options for the Phillies went down.

[bkeich]

If they just wanted to get rid of Eshelman (the AF argument), and didn't have an immediate need for international pool space, then the rational trade, with the Orioles or somebody else, would have been for another minor-leaguer...and clubs can always make such deals. That they traded for pool slots, and not for some AAA filler (they could use an outfielder at AAA, for example), tells me that they wanted the pool slots - and that implies that they have a specific use in mind, at this late date in the signing period.

Another possible reason is that they wanted to unload Eshelman (reason unknown) and taking back the slot was just to make it so that it was not a trade for cash (bad PR) or for nothing (not allowed). The slot(s) are of very little value at this point, but of course we dont know how or if the Phils will even use it, we just suspect they have a reason. As one other posted pointed out it could be a quid pro quo for a future or past "favor" from the O's.

[julio]

Another possible reason is that they wanted to unload Eshelman (reason unknown) and taking back the slot was just to make it so that it was not a trade for cash (bad PR) or for nothing (not allowed). The slot(s) are of very little value at this point, but of course we dont know how or if the Phils will even use it, we just suspect they have a reason. As one other posted pointed out it could be a quid pro quo for a future or past "favor" from the O's.

I'm sorry, but this just isn't a credible argument to me. Your premise is that the Phillies took the slots for Eshelman as a fig leaf - just to "make it look good." That assumes three things:

1. They couldn't actually come to an agreement with the Orioles about anything of value for Eshelman - some random minor-leaguer; and

2. Selling an unneeded minor-leaguer for cash would be "bad PR"; and

3. They're concerned about appearances, rather than actually getting value.

I don't buy any of those premises. I mean, if we were talking about Bill Giles, or if the Phils' President and GM were alumni of the marketing department, then maybe. But dumping Eshelman for nothing would be stupid, from a baseball perspective... and I've seen nothing that leads me to believe that this management team would do this.

[andyb]

Honestly, we were not going to protect Eshelman, but I am not sure he would have been taken. He might have been taken and used as a reliever, but as a starter he almost certainly will not succeed in the majors. (he was passed over once in the Rule V already, so he might have just been a FA after this year??, but I think he is still 1 year short of that)

He was passed over because he was awful last year. He has been pitching well this year though. And the question of whether he is useful depth is also about this year, 2019. He's pitching well. We are losing a pitcher or two to injury every week. Stranger things have happened as to him being useful. His stuff might be close to Eickhoff these days and he probably has better command.

This is not to say he is valuable. He is just worth more than nothing. Probably worth more than other little deals like Jack Zoellner (for slots) and Jake Schiener (for Bruce). He is worth more because of proximity, being in AAA and playing pretty well.