July 2, 2017 International Signing Period

[zambonir]

I think it is more inflated because of the Braves. There are only three teams pursuing Ohtani who can actually trade for allocation, and they can do so knowing they can use it on Braves guys otherwise (though not indefinitely). Or a few other players.

Can allocations be re-traded?

[andyb]

Allocation prices did increase a bit because of both Ohtani and the Braves. The Braves' prospects seem to be signing at a 30%-50% discount plus $200K of their bonus does not count on the allocation. So in this short window international allocations are going a bit further.

A 3rd round pick for a million dollars of allocations that could sign 3 similar talents is not a bad deal for most teams.

[Austinfan]

And most LA prospects don't make it either. The odds are much longer for less than elite LA prospects.
Like I said, to trade a recent 3rd rd pick (unless they're an obvious flop), I'd need to be able to sign multiple remaining Braves prospects.

[andyb]

And most LA prospects don't make it either. The odds are much longer for less than elite LA prospects.
Like I said, to trade a recent 3rd rd pick (unless they're an obvious flop), I'd need to be able to sign multiple remaining Braves prospects.

So? What does it matter that the range of outcomes on 16 year olds has a wider variation in draft outcomes. In terms of dollars per WAR the two sources are probably pretty close. And any bonus for either goes 10 times farther than dollars to the major league roster because the draft and international pools are artificially limited by collective bargaining.

While I don't love Gutierrez as a prospect, he is also a huge value for $350K in allocations. I would take 3 of him compared to one 3rd round pick every single day of the week. Gutierrez is probably at least as good a prospect as Seabold is (even considering your strange love of guys with marginal stuff that have good command). The three million dollar guys left all are likely better prospects than Seabold too.

[schillingfan]

I don't understand why there is an efficiency or wise use of resources issue regarding draft versus international signings when it comes to the Phillies. If you are the 2017 of the Moneyball A's it would make some sense as the team does not have the financial resources to use up to the caps in draft and international allotments or cap in spending. The Phillies do. There is no "either or" issue with regard to draft versus international as they can spend up to the cap for both and trade for additional allocations for international without affecting what they can spend in the draft.

Yes, trading for allocations means losing some prospects which may have been higher draft picks. But that's based upon information regarding that prospect's performance and really is a matter of evaluation of individual talent and ceilings. It's a case by case decision of which individual will be better, not an evaluation of draft versus international talent generally. (edited for grammar correction)

[Squire]

Ohtani signs with the Los Angeles Angels of Anahem

[andyb]

Not a bad week for them. The urgency of trading for that extra couple million in allocations seems well-placed.

Yankees, Mariners and Rangers seem likely to sweep up the remaining Braves prospects and/or the Cuban OF (Martinez). Unless the M's want to flip those allocations to some other team.

[julio]

MLBAM has finally updated the Phils' transactions pages with more of the 2017-18 international amateur signings, going back to last July. Here's the current list, compiled from either those transactions pages or Baseball America reporting (with still some holes in the data, unfortunately):

Player	Position	Signed	Nationality	Birth	Age	Bonus
Betancourt, Carlos	RHP	7/2/17	Venezuela	3/27/01	16	460,000
Candelo, Luis	RHP	9/12/17		6/27/97	20
Cruz, Cristofer	RHP	7/3/17	Dominican	4/15/99	18
Garcia, Luis	SS	7/2/17	Dominican	10/1/00	16	2,500,000
Gomez, Luis	RHP	7/14/17	Venezuela	5/14/01	16
Gonzalez, Oscar	C	7/2/17	Venezuela		16	135,000
Gutierrez, Abrahan	C	12/5/17	Venezuela	8/31/99	18	350,000
Hernandez, Cristian	RHP	7/2/17	Venezuela	9/23/00	16
Hernandez, Joan	RHP	7/7/17	Dominican	7/7/99	18
Lima, Cristian	RHP	7/17/17	Dominican	7/5/00	17
Made, Alejandro	RHP	7/2/17	Dominican	12/29/97	19
Marin, Adrian	LHP	7/19/17	Venezuela	1/19/99	18
Mata, Cesar	OF	7/6/17		9/15/00	16
Morales, Efrain	RHP	9/5/17	Mexico	6/26/01	16
Ortega, Junior	OF	9/13/17	Dominican	9/30/99	18
Parraga, Roger	RHP	7/6/17		2/15/01	16
Puello, Alfonso	RHP	7/2/17	Dominican	10/10/00	16	460,000
Ramirez, Pedro	OF	7/7/17	Dominican	2/14/00	17
Rodriguez, Cesar	C	7/2/17	Venezuela	12/26/00	16	500,000
Tamariz, Diego	RHP	7/5/17	Venezuela			10,000
Torres, Alberto	LHP	7/2/17	Columbia	4/28/01	16	90,000
Vargas, Victor	RHP	7/2/17	Columbia	9/3/00	16	525,000
Vilchez, Daniel	RHP	9/11/17		10/4/00	16

[bkeich]

It is amazing how many of those guys were just born in the last year... I count 5. (I think it is a typo, the all seem to be 16, so I am guessing it should be 01 and not 17, it takes a large organization for having both digits wrong being a typo))

(and Julio fixed it while I typed my smart ass comment)

[Mod's comment: Yeah, I managed to put several of the birth dates in the signing dates column, and vice versa. Ya get what ya pay for... - J]

[schillingfan]

Speaking of typos. did we really sign a female named Joan Hernandez or is that the player's real name?

[andyb]

Twins sign Yunior Severino for $2.5 million. Interesting after they just got rid of $2 million in allocations they are using money from 2018. I think they still want to sign Marte the guy they voided for $3 million plus a little while ago. They still have a million and change in 2017 allocations left so they can do that. First guy to sign for more, so I imagine his stock soared in his GCL debut (789 OPS though moved to 2B from SS)

Twins sign former Braves prospect Yunior Severino for $2.5 million

Rangers sign Yenci Pena for $675K also. Juan Contreras (big velocity, no control arm) seems the last big prospect left.

Kevin Maitan, Venezula shortstop, $4.25M bonus. - signed with Angels for $2.2 million
Abrahan Gutierrez, Venezuelan catcher, $3.53M bonus - signed with Phillies for $550K
Yunior Severino, Dominican shortstop, $1.9M - signed with Twins for $2.5 million
Juan Contreras, Dominican right-handed pitcher, $1.2M.
Yenci Pena, Dominican shortstop, $1.05M - signed with Rangers for $675K
Yefri del Rosario, Dominican right-handed pitcher, $1M - signed with Royals for $650K
Juan Carlos Negret, Cuban outfielder, $1M. - signed with Royals
Livan Soto, Venezuelan shortstop, $1M - signed with Angels for $850K
Guillermo Zuniga, Columbian right-handed pitcher, $350,000 - signed with Dodgers for $205K
Antonio Sucre, Venezuelan outfielder, $300,000.
Brandol Mezquita, Dominican outfielder, $300,000.
Angel Rojas, Dominican shortstop, $300,000.
Ji-Hwan Bae, South Korea shortstop, $300,000

[zambonir]

It's not unheard of as a male name (Miro, for instance).

[julio]

Speaking of typos. did we really sign a female named Joan Hernandez or is that the player's real name?

I'm apparently feeling cranky tonight. My first reaction to this was, "I provided the date he signed; he's listed on the Phils' transactions page. I have to verify this?!"

But then I kind of relented...

Joan Hernandez Stats, Fantasy & News

[Squire]

Dang. Bummed about Pena. He was the one I wanted. And we had the pool space to get him at that price too.

[Austinfan]

Sometimes we forget that there 29 other teams out there who also have agendas.
Problem is you don't know what's behind the scenes, how our scouts evaluated these players, what connections their agents have with other teams.
Most of these signings are less an auction than a negotiation lined to other deals, past and future.

[andyb]

Sometimes we forget that there 29 other teams out there who also have agendas.

Of course they do. But on the other side of the coin there were really only about 10 teams that have the money to max out on international prospects (with other teams in the penalty or not having the cash). It is reasonable to expect that the Phillies max out their resources. I never worry about losing one prospect we might want. It happens. I do worry, however, when we do not max out our potential resources. We failed to do that in 2016 and it sure looks like we are on a path to not trading for additional allocations and and failing to max out our resources in 2017.

[gmwannabe]

I think i am correct in stating that there is no carryover from one year to the next. if so, wondering why, a team that has stated it wants to spend money would not spend to the fullest amount that it can. there is a great chance that the prospect will not work out. but, that one chance in a hundred, if it does will be golden. kind of disappointed, with the ending of this situation with the braves prospects, that the phils only signed one. As AF has stated, maybe with the scouting reports or other connections, things didn't work out. still money left. don't know if there is any usage for it now.
gm

[allentown]

I agree GM. Even if the last $ is spent with only 10% of the value of the first $, I still want the Phillies to spend every possible $ allowed on the draft and international. There may be some other international players available. At least one Cuban is still wending his way through the system.

Like Squire, I really wanted us to get Pena. If he makes it, consensus is it will be as a 3B, and we are short at 3B up and down the system. Still, at the end of the day I'm content that we added a solid prospect catcher. We are a little bit stronger. This whole mess has left the Braves a whole lot weaker. Going forward, the Braves were the biggest impediment to us winning the NL East when we have a chance to be strong enough to achieve that. We are in a lot better shape than we were prior to the Braves mess.

[Austinfan]

I doubt Klentak is hoarding Middleton's money.
But what probably happens is simple, first they make a list of the players they actually want, then they contact their agents.
Some are already committed for one reason or another, and money doesn't really matter (unless you want to grossly overpay).
Agents have relationships with GMs, especially with LA players where it's more of a free-for-all, and there are probably numerous tacit, under the table agreements.

The league cracked down on the Braves for trying to game the system, but probably turns a blind eye to informal agreements where you sign one guy, but commit to at least auditioning or signing lesser prospects down the road (but not deals where you try to circumvent cap restrictions, rather, quid pro quo type arrangements).

So I suspect the logic that if you have a lot of money, you can sign anyone you want doesn't really apply in LA.
Money matters, but so do relationships.

[DurhamBull]

Speaking of typos. did we really sign a female named Joan Hernandez or is that the player's real name?

While doing genealogical research on records written in Polonised Latin (sometimes transliterated from Cyrillic), I came across Joan as a male name a number of times. Basically, Ian = Ioan = Joan = Johan = Iwan = Ivan = John. I never could figure out “Ioan” until a friend of mine pointed out that it could be pronounced as 3 syllables. It’s interesting to me that Joan is still used as a male name, so thanks for bringing it up.