Is there a decent CF available through trade

[Lawman]

Yeah, that's not realistic - the Rendon thing. Hamilton is realistic, but I doubt KC takes on Herrera.

[andyb]

Rendon, I guess. Yes, I doubt the Nats will trade him to us anyway. I'm not sure they can afford to let him go either but if he's not taking an extension and they're going to blow it all up..

Rendon is a huge question (along with firing Martinez) down here in DC. It is seen as a huge mistake that was ownership's fault last year when they apparently had a deal on the table with Harper to Houston that was vetoed (for 4 players and prospects).

The Phillies probably will not get close to what Houston offered for Harper in terms of prospects. And beyond Bohm we don't have much on the high end that would be attractive. We probably want to keep Haseley unless we deal for a CF. And Medina and Spencer Howard and Luis Garcia are all having seasons where their value has not skyrocketed.

Grullon is probably attractive now, but I still don't think he is viewed that highly throughout the league.

[bkeich]

I With the reality of whatFranco is I would say Bohm is very close to untouchable.

With Herrera on thin ice it might be true that Haseley is very close to untouchable.

I doubt anyone would give us more that a fairly new baseball for Moniak. Maybe he be enough to get a “we don’t really want this guys contract” like Hamilton.

With the dearth of prospects we have it would be better to not trade anyone like Gruillion until maybe his value is better established. If he can unseat Knapp next year (shouldn’t be too hard) perhaps he can be rolled over for some young prospects to help build up the farm a little. I would hope we can build value with him, catchers are always in demand. Maybe Knapp can hit his weight and bring back something from some team that hasn’t noticed his gaff’s running the bases.

[Austinfan]

Kingery needs to be more selective, but I don't think his power is a fluke, any more than Cesar's power uptick.

Kingery has a very quick bat, and as he learns (hopefully) to lay off pitches out of the K-zone he should improve - still gets fooled on a regular basis, but as he learns to be more patient, has the quick bat to wait on pitches and still handle FBs.

[Austinfan]

One thing to keep in mind, with this lineup, you can live with Kingery's defense (which should improve with experience, he has plus speed), and Franco's bat - they've already survived a decimated bullpen and some shaky SPs. Unfortunately, Haseley and Bohm probably won't be ready until next season, but no reason to panic.

[nycphils]

Won’t a look at Kingery’s OSwing% and ZSwing% give a better idea if his low BB Rate is an indicator of future problems, or if he really is just doing a better job of hunting good pitches to hit?

[schooldoc]

I agree on trying all in-house options first before looking outside the organization for CF help, particularly when there are limited trade assets to deal from.

In addition to Billy Hamilton, another defense-first guy who could probably he had on the cheap is SF's Kevin Pillar. He is an arb2 guy, making a shade under $6 million. If acquired in late July, you're on the hook for about $2 million of it and you can non-tender him after this year if you wish.

[Phanatical]

We need a pitcher ASAP.

We should allow the CF situation to clarify itself before we do anything.

Maybe Kingery proves adequate defensively and continues to develop offensively.
Perhaps the Herrera situation is less dire than it seems now.
Maybe Haseley rises to the challenge and tears the cover off the ball in AAA.
In some dreams, Quinn gets healthy and stays healthy for half a season.
Williams is still capable of hitting and Cutch is fine in CF (if less than optimal defensively)

I see no reason to panic about CF. We have at least a month for better luck to shine upon us there. Let’s see what unfolds before trading a valuable prospect.

[zambonir]

Well there's little chance they'll make any trades before July 15 or so, probably later. Maybe if something drastic happened (like, another actual injury to Quinn combined with a 70-game suspension to Odubel).

Eflin's supposed to make his next start, and Velasquez is still in the pocket, so same there. We'll see about the two free agents though. Arano is pretty much done and it seems like Neshek could be gone just as long as Robertson has been so they might need something. But in the end you gotta try the guys you already have on the 40 (not that they couldn't DFA Mitch Walding or Gosselin for Kimbrel).

[allentown]

I wouldn't trade for a CF. I think with Hernandez playing well that Kingery has to be the CF answer, with Quinn hopefully pitching in. We don't have minor league talent to spare in a trade for a good CF and most of the guys listed above aren't going to move the needle. The Phillies need to continue to improve the team with young players going forward. I don't think we have either peaked in this cycle or that being aggressive in trades of future for now this season will make the team good enough to have much chance of getting past Dodgers to WS.

[phillychuck]

This is a good point...we do need to keep the well from running dry.

[zambonir]

I mean, you're not wrong, but the Phillies are very much on a two-year win-now cycle. No Arrieta, Hernandez or (on paper) Realmuto after 2020. By 2021 McCutchen will be 34 and on the third year of his deal. Segura will be 31. Even Hoskins and Harper will technically be on the wrong side of peak. And if we wait to catch the Dodgers on paper it may never happen (and the Braves will pass us in the meantime).

So yeah, on the one hand all the more reason to hope that Haseley and Moniak have a shot at contributing and hold on to what little they have. But as things currently stand they are going to have to upgrade either CF or 3B at least in part (whichever one Kingery doesn't play), and probably for more than just this season if Herrera doesn't stay (I can't see both Haseley and Bohm in next year's Opening Day line-up, but we can hope).

I would just say it's the lowest area of need behind SP and (assuming more than a couple of these guys won't be able to come back) RP.

I think Williams and a lottery ticket can get you an OF if it comes to it. I also think Herrera's situation will be clear by mid-July. MLB doesn't have to wait for the court date but even if they do that's still a fair amount of time. Herrera himself could still be what you trade, too. Obviously he's not performing like past accused abusers who were traded, but he's going to play baseball for someone.

[Austinfan]

Arrieta is not a huge loss, he's a 3rd/4th starter at this point in his career.
I like Realmuto, but if he doesn't step up his hitting in two years he'll bat 7th and not be an outrageous resign.
McCutchen should age well, but in two years, Haseley, Moniak, Ortiz, maybe others should be knocking on the door.
Segura should still be capable at 31 and we have a flood of LA IFs who should be in AA and AAA by then.

At this point they've shot their wad on free agents and trades, time to play the hand you've been dealt.
Any team with a core of Harper, Hoskins, Kingery, and hopefully Bohm and Haseley should be able to patch a few spots.
When they have Arrieta, Robertson, Neshek, Nicasio, etc. off the books some serious money should be free, though Hoskins will need to get paid at some point.

[zambonir]

When they have Arrieta, Robertson, Neshek, Nicasio, etc. off the books some serious money should be free, though Hoskins will need to get paid at some point.

Hoskins won't be any harder to pay than Nola was I expect. He probably won't be here much past his UFA year (unless years are bought out by a contract).

It's true that Arrieta is not a huge loss but the Phillies still don't have anyone you'd call a #2 starter, and I doubt they are going to let this deadline go by without getting someone. So the only question is do you sacrifice more talent to acquire someone controllable, or go after someone like Hamels or Bumgarner and then sign a FA (since they have more $ than tradeable depth) for next year.

(Shoot, it's June 1, is it time for an actual Trade Deadline thread, or should we just change the name of this one?)

[andyb]

Probably this thread will work for trade deadline rumors.

Also, Rosenthal mentioned the Phillies were one of the teams in on Kimbrel in his latest column (which led with the Cubs being interested). Twins too. Big question is number of years for me. Maybe they could compromise on 2? We do have all those reliever salaries coming off the books next year, so giving Kimbrel $30 million for 1.6 seasons would not kill us regarding the cap.

[nycphils]

Hoskins won't be any harder to pay than Nola was I expect. He probably won't be here much past his UFA year (unless years are bought out by a contract).

My best guess is Hoskins is unlikely to be resigned...Bohm, assuming he can hit well, will be heading into his age 27 year and very likely to be best as a 1B at that point, while Rhys will be going into Free Agency after his age 30 season. They are going to need the money for other positions most likely and Hoskins won’t be a great bet at that time. Now, of course if it turns out that Rhys is still crushing it, or Bohm can handle 3B or doesn’t pan out as expected, etc. maybe they will resign Hoskins, but as I sit here today my money would be on “no”.

[zambonir]

I agree he won't be re-signed in the long term but he's got four arbitration years (plus next season) before that, it is probably in the everyone's mutual interest to make a deal to give the Phillies cost certainy and Hoskins security.

I'm still assuming Harper is the 1B though I guess if there's a DH that changes everything. I don't think Bohm affect Hoskins' future either way though, I hope he's a 3B but you can always find another 1B.

[bigegypt0417]

Phillies closing in on a deal for hay bruce...could be the answer to this question...

[zambonir]

Meaning, they are fine with what they got in CF.

As I posted in the other thread, could they be trading Williams for Bruce?

[zambonir]

I think Jayson Stark sums it up. They'll be busy.

PHILLIES: Their best bullpen arms keep going down. Their rotation doesn’t seem built for October. And their owner, John Middleton, didn’t pump $330 million into Bryce Harper Inc. to watch another season unravel. “They’ll be all over the best arms on the market – starter or reliever,” one AL exec said. “And especially if they can match up on an impact starter.”

Stark: 10 things we learned in May