How to fix the game

[andyb]

NFL night games do wrap up around Midnight usually though. The 9 PM Monday night starts are a thing of the past. And for the playoffs they start even earlier around 6:30 or 7:00 usually. These are baseball's premier games there is no reason they have to start after 8:00. Adding regular season night games when there are lots of games available every week is very different than starting your premier games later than the regular ones usually start.

[zambonir]

I just think the NFL has a lot more leverage over the networks. Clearly TBS expects to be able to show 100 commercials for The Guest Book as part of what they are paying for. It also seems the networks would rather lose viewers after 11pm than not have them (or not be able to charge pre-prime time ad rates) before 8. Especially when one game or the other is still outside of prime-time on doubleheader days to begin with.

It was actually funny to see Dodgers Stadium be so full the other night, it was so freaking late - and the game was so important - that nobody had to worry about beating the traffic.

And of course this is a very East Coast-centric topic. That's where the most people are, obviously. But if you live in Mountain or Pacific it's not a big deal, in Central the games still end at a reasonable hour, and Pacific fans already get screwed by 5pm starts, 4pm, would be even worse.

I believe Sunday Night Football also started in 2006. But yes, Thursday expanded and with the rise of the streaming deals I suspect they'll eventually find another night spot.

[EastFallowfield]

ESPN had Sunday Night Football from 1987 up until it went to NBC.

Internet says it went from some weeks of the season to all the weeks of the season in 1988 and that half the games were on TNT for 8 years, which I barely remember. (Also, internet tells me the famous drunken Joe Namath interview was on an ESPN Sunday night game).

[zambonir]

Ah, I guess I was just thinking of NBC (and yes I don't remember TNT either).

Here's the thing: on this board it feels like long-time (and yes, older) fans lamenting long games and too many strikeouts and whatever else it is that makes the game less compelling to them than it was 10 years ago (or 20 years ago, or 50 years ago). But the people who want to see reforms are mostly concerned with attracting younger fans. The NFL cutting commercials is partly a response to streaming (since there are far fewer commercials, none on Netflix etc.) and shorter attention spans.

And as the Ringer article says:

To recap: Playoff baseball is significantly longer and slower-paced than regular-season baseball, with more mind-numbing delays, fewer balls in play, and less scoring. Add in later start times, and the playoffs are actively contributing to the perception that baseball is a boring slog that only an old could enjoy.

If the league wants its product to do more than attract true believers, the playoffs have to be friendlier to channel-flippers for whom four-hour games are a few innings too far.

[EastFallowfield]

Lot of younger NFL fans watch the Red Zone feed, maybe baseball could play all its playoff games at around the same time so up until the World Series there's always a chance at least one of them would be interesting at any given point.

[LoneStarPhan]

As a Phillies Phan for 67 seasons, I’m probably not included in the younger NFL fan category, but I usually watch the Red Zone on Sunday sfternoons. I’m not sure it would work for baseball post season since they rely on the several networks for post season TV money. Would rights to all for single source simultaneous coverage return as much? Would fans like such coverage? I’m not sure. It is an interesting idea.

[zambonir]

Baseball certainly lends itself to watching two games at a time, but you don't see the Red Zone in the playoffs because games are never at the same time and that will remain the case for baseball (and all sports past the early rounds) for the most part.

The baseball equivalent can be done easily in the regular season on MLB.TV, and MLB Network (when it's not actually showing a live game) is basically a Red Zone type experience. Baseball's different though - you wouldn't only want to see players with RISP, you want to see home runs of any kind, and great defensive plays (rare though they may be now).

[EastFallowfield]

Wonder how much different the ratings would be between a game that airs between 1-4 ET in the LDS or one that would air in prime time up against another game.

[andyb]

The ratings would certainly be higher at night, though the networks probably analyze the difference in ratings you would get compared to alternate programming. So if a normal LCS game gets 5 million people to watch at night, 2 games at the same time on different channels might get 8 million. All of this compared to 1 million normally. (All fake numbers). Thus the first game gets an extra 4 million and the second game gets an extra 2 million.

In the afternoon the ratings lift would not need to be as much because ratings are much smaller. Getting 4 million in the afternoon might be equivalent to 5 million at night (assuming near zero people normally watch TBS in the afternoon). But since a second simultaneous game at night only draws an extra 2 million in the above example, one might need only 2.5 million viewers in the afternoon to make as much money as 5 million at night (because a second game at night would not draw 5 million).

I am fine with the early round games going later when there are 3 or 4 a day. Same thing when the NBA has a west coast game starting at 10:30 in the early rounds. But when you get to the final rounds they just need to end earlier for the good of the sport. This is not about old people or millennials. It is about selling the sport to wide and diverse audiences and there is just no reason at all for a 9-inning game to take 4 hours.

[EastFallowfield]

Wonder how viewers react to missing the beginning of a game vs knowing they won't be awake for an end to a game.

[andyb]

I DVR most games these days anyway. Start an hour late and catch up by the end of the game. Just need to turn any texting alerts off. Of course if all fans were like me then the whole model of TV advertising would collapse.

In general I think fans would trade innings 8 and 9 for 1 and 2 most of the time. Fans have been tuning in to the NBA for the last 2 minutes for a long time. That works less well with baseball since consequential runs can clearly be scored early and the early parts of basketball games mean much less.

[EastFallowfield]

If you miss the first 3 innings and something amazing happens, they do show it over and over and over.

I DVR the postseason games that interest me and zip thru them in the morning, barely slowing down for action let alone ads.

[zambonir]

There are multiple articles on the Athletic today which suggest that another big reason for the long/slow games is the possibility of sign-stealing. Teams are changing their signs frequently in-game (which also means extra trips to the mound) to defend against it. Also making it harder on the catchers when signals get crossed (literally).