General MLB Discussion, Winter 2023-24

[zambonir]

It's pretty surprising - and suspicious, IMO - that it wound up being entirely on him. It doesn't even make much sense. Did the fake injuries actually keep the Mets under a certain salary threshold (and if so, shouldn't the team be punished for it even if their GM was solely responsible? He was still the GM).

Until this happened all indication was that Eppler would stay on under Stearns - and, in fact, even when they hired him it was pointed out that he was close to Stearns and the Mets were likely to get Stearns. Really feels like he's the guy doing time for the boss here (ownership not Stearns).

He'll still find another job I'm sure, just not as a GM after his last two stints (even if both were as much due to ownership). He also did build a team that won more than 100 games one year, which the Phillies haven't tasted.

[Docs]

He also did build a team that won more than 100 games one year, which the Phillies haven't tasted.

Didn’t the Phils win 102 in 2011?

[zambonir]

I don't mean ever, just in Eppler and Cohen's two years. Or Dombrowski's three. During which the Phillies certainly still have bragging rights but not because of the regular season.

(And, as it happens, the Phillies GM that built that 102-win team hasn't worked for a front office since... the Mets.)

[zambonir]

I was wondering about this. Did he really do anything 29 other teams don't also do every year, or did he just do it to the wrong guy and got caught? What the Thosar tweet implies is that the players would like to see all the other teams who do it be held accountable too. Seems like more of a fine offense than a suspension offense - convenient to suspend someone who was probably only going to work as a special assistant or consultant this year anyway, and not punish the team that benefitted from the infraction at all.

It’s still not clear which specific players were involved or what the details of the transgressions were. A “phantom IL” placement has been sort of an open secret in baseball for years. If a player is struggling but cannot be sent to the minors due to being out of options or having more than five years of service time, then a club may place him on the injured list with some sort of nebulous injury such as “neck stiffness” or “back tightness”, then send him on a rehab assignment to get some work in the minors and try to get things back on track.

Deesha Thosar of Fox Sports relays that she spoke to various players about the issue who agreed that “every team does it” and expressed confusion as to why Eppler was being singled out. To this point, it’s unclear if the practice was taken to some unprecedented level or if this is the start of the league planning a bigger crackdown on the practice league-wide.

Per Joel Sherman and Dan Martin of The New York Post, the league was tipped off to the practice with the Mets via an anonymous letter, so it’s possible that the club simply got caught in a way that the league felt had to be addressed.

Billy Eppler Placed On Ineligible List Through 2024 World Series

[BostonRoss]

I would think that Eppler helped his future employability by accepting all the responsibility.

[LoneStarPhan]

I suspect that on any given day, there are players on each active roster that have some tightness, soreness, or other lingering aches and pains. Most often these are not a big deal and the trainers work with the players to continue playing. It becomes difficult to determine if putting players on the IL is legitimate or not. Every team uses the IL. I don't really see this as a major problem.

[zambonir]

Yup that's how a cartel works right? If you're a good soldier you still get to live (or in this case work again).

[zambonir]

It's an "everybody does it" type thing just like sign stealing. But it is a problem (if not a major one) for several reasons.

• If you are a player with the right to refuse an assignment to AAA and you don't think you are too injured to play, the team is violating your rights

• if there's a player who can only be either put on the IL or DFA'ed and the team invented something for the former, 29 teams have lost the chance to claim that player. Which also potentially violates the player's rights.

• if you "hide" a player on the IL or in AAA who isn't injured, the contributions of the player who takes his roster spot are illegitimate. And you've essentially turned your 26-man roster into 27 (or 28, or 29).

And yet, yes, everybody does it. Will they keep doing it?

[LoneStarPhan]

Z, you are correct. But it is not an exact science. There is judgement involved in whether of not to put a player on the IL or let him play through it when there is a problem but not a clearly evident major injury. Maybe MLB will be watching the IL moves more closely and require more justification for an IL move if the injury is not obvious.

Clearly, misusing the IL is unethical and in many cases, may end up disadvantaging a player.

Personally, I would like to see the active roster increased to 27 or 28, and the 40 man roster to 42. With the DH now universal, teams have 4 bench players. I would like to see that be at least 5 players. That is my opinion and I am sure there are arguments to make against increased roster size.

[zambonir]

What's funny is we talked a lot about whether Noah Song was really hurt and that whole situation turned into nothing (including, it seems whether he was ever worth the risk of trying to game the system). I think it was lightly assumed that Dylan Covey wasn't hurt late last season either.

Clearly the Mets just pissed off the wrong player, or did it often enough that he was the last straw.

[andyb]

The late season transactions that let Nick Nelson start the final game were kind of shady.

[andyb]

Pulled fly balls now as much a thing as launch angles.

The Pulled Fly Ball Revolution Was Always Underway

[bkox]

Source: Giants agree to $42M deal with Soler

[andyb]

One interesting note here. Complex leagues will now start on May 4th and end on July 25th. So no draftees playing there any more. Going to be really difficult for many draftees to get playing time now. Certainly no HS draftees. And really there is probably only room for a half dozen college players to get to Clearwater. My guess is they shut down just about every pitcher and it will only be the higher position players that get a cup of coffee their draft season.

Thinking about it further - I guess this means fewer players will get released midseason since it is the assignment to a roster that triggers the roster limits.

2/13/24 : Today at the Complex

[zambonir]

It seemed like that was the goal when they moved the draft and consolidated the minors to begin with. Means some of the draft picks won't get any money their first season other than signing bonus right?

[andyb]

I have no idea if the minor league monthly salary kicks in when they sign or when they get assigned to a roster.

I can't imagine it would save lots of money to just have these guys hanging around the complex on per diems for a couple of months instead of the tiny minor league salary. Would Miller or Crawford have even played in their draft year (HS draftees) under this system?

[zambonir]

I think with the new structure you have to be in on a team/in a league to get paid per the CBA salaries for each levels. But, on the bright side, shortening the season doesn't actually reduce the pay of those players because they are being paid almost year-round now rather than only in-season (if still not that much at the very lowest level).

Agreed, pre diem or possibly, even off-season work-out stipend is peanuts, as is the salary. For a team like the Phillies it shouldn't stop them from doing whatever they are allowed to do with as many players as they can. But for the lower money teams, they probably won't.

[andyb]

I wonder if extended Spring now becomes extended late Fall games. There is a need for complex games of some sort in August for player rehab that gets harder to do in full season leagues.

[fish]

I wonder if extended Spring now becomes extended late Fall games

BA says there will be makeshift Tricky Leagues line there used to be in the dsl.

Players now get paid “nearly year-round” per Jeff Passan, which I take to mean they get paid all year except for the mandatory no-in-house training periods in the winter.

[andyb]

It would be fun if they did a split complex league season. Like 50 games before and 50 games after the draft, but there does not seem to be any will to do something like that. I think they prefer to have the informal games where pitches can just throw 20 pitches and not worry about how many outs they get.