GDT 9/13/17 Miami Marlins (D Straily) @ Philadelphia Phillies (A Nola)

[donaldorc]

Whoo Hoo! Fun game to watch!

[LoneStarPhan]

Nola pitching a really nice game tonight. He is becoming a solid starter even if not a true #1, and that is a discussion for another day and thread.

Has been discussed in multiple threads.

Yes, and I am sure it will continue to be all winter.

Great win for the young Phillies again tonight.

Making baseball phun again for Phillies Phans.

[donaldorc]

Making baseball phun again for Phillies Phans.

Hoskins is simply unbelievable. Think they'll brush him back again tomorrow like the did earlier?

[EDmuch]

Only 19 more to go to tie the Tribe's record !!!!!!

[donaldorc]

Only 19 more to go to tie the Tribe's record !!!!!!

LOL! LOL!

[EastFallowfield]

Had 'em all the way, Harry!

Marlins have looked like they took their wild card chances their broadcasts were pushing hard about as seriously as I did.

[bkox]

Ben Harris (byBenHarris)

[Jeff05]

It's just as astonishing for someone who is reading the pbp!

[LoneStarPhan]

Hoskins has 15 singles, 4 doubles and 17 home runs. Also 24 walks and 2 HBP to balance 26 strikeouts.

[Austinfan]

Nola is on the verge of being a top 10 pitcher.
He had all three pitches working, especially the changeup, which is far improved over last season.
Struggled with command the 1st inning, then settled down.
Throwing 93-94, but dropped to 90-91 on the two seamer at times, I think this was deliberate, hit a 91 MPH 2 seamer then come back with a 94 MPH 4 seamer.
He's developing into a pitcher, I think he works some more with Burris this offseason and builds strength and stamina.
Next year he'll be the old man of the rotation at age 25.

The HR by Yelich was a good pitch, 93 MPH FB on the inside edge of the plate, sometimes good hitters hit good pitches.

There are no more words for Hoskins, the closest thing was Howard his first few years, but Howard was never a polished hitter like Hoskins.
Hoskins has great plate discipline and does it all, HR on an inside pitch then takes an outside pitch to RF.
I'm starting to think his mini-slump in AAA ball was due to boredom.

[tom81]

I'm starting to think his mini-slump in AAA ball was due to boredom.

I was thinking this too AF. It had to bother him that he was playing so well and Joseph and the MLB team were struggling and there was nothing he could do about it.

[Philsmania]

I doubt either one of them will win it but Hoskins and Williams both ought to be in the others guys receiving votes tally for NLROTY. Or, can we make a reasonable argument, that Hoskins should actually win it?

Here's one point of view which states that Hoskins will have a hard time overtaking Bellinger but should finish in the top 3:

Rhys Hoskins: Where’ll he finish in Rookie of the Year voting

[allentown]

There are no more words for Hoskins, the closest thing was Howard his first few years, but Howard was never a polished hitter like Hoskins.

I think you allow your more recent memory of the post-injury, post-shift, older Howard to cloud your memory of the young Howard. Through about his first 5 seasons, Howard was the most prolific HR hitter, for same number of AB at the start of career, in baseball history. And he wasn't just a HR hitter, he was a major performer in OBP and OPS. In his initial five over-300 AB seasons, in which he hit 180 HR, Howard posted OBPs of .356, .425, .392, .339, .360 with OPS of .923, 1.084, .976, 882, .931.

It's a curse to a player to be spoken of as the next Schmidt or Utley, based upon SSS rookie year stats. Hoskins has the advantage of starting in MLB younger than Howard did and starting off on an historic tear. He's a guy to dream on and his youth and superior athleticism (compared to Howard) gives hope that he will be a power force for the Phillies for more years than Howard was. Still it is tempting fate and putting a huge burden on the kids shoulders to declare him to be basically Howard, but with more polish. Frankly, the kid needs to do a ton more good hitting over another 5 seasons to equal Howard, and he will need to do a lot of adjusting to pitcher's and fielders adjustments to pull it off. I do see him as a key core piece on our next post-season team, but let's not get too carried away. With exaggerated expectations come that particular Phillies' curse of fans taking out their frustrations upon players who are simply playing like stars rather than like the totally well-rounded super-stars they had become in the fans' expectations. Rolen, Abreu, and Burrell can tell you all about that.

[zambonir]

Yup, there's a lot of irrational exuberance right now, but it's fun. It does seem like he has more legit OBP/pitch selection skills, so even if this level of power can't be sustained, he might not be as dependent on it (and mistakes/scaring pitchers) to get on base.

But we won't know anything until 2019 really. If he never slumps, great, he'll be the king of Philadelphia. If he does (and if the team is still not .500 next year), WIP will probably get dumb, but hopefullly he'll get through it (as Herrera has). We've long said the Phillies lack stars but it looks a lot more like they could have two than it did four months ago.

[EDmuch]

AT LEAST two.

[Austinfan]

Howard had more raw power than Hoskins, but he was a year older when he arrived.
At age 25: 312 AB, 22 HR, .288/.356/.567/.924
Both players were aided by a conservative development path where they polished their approach.

The league adjusted to Howard after his second season, His BA fell from .313, ..261, .258, .279, while he always had a very high K rate.
Adjustments are faster these day with the proliferation of sophisticated video editing allowing easy access to analyze player tendencies, and universal use of shifts.
Howard was always primarily a pull hitter who refused to adjust his style and never learned to use the whole field (or to lay off low breaking balls).

The difference with Hoskins is that Hoskins isn't like Howard at all, he's more like Goldschmidt, a powerful high contact hitter with great plate discipline, but he strikes out a lot less than Goldschmidt.

[julio]

Howard was always primarily a pull hitter who refused to adjust his style and never learned to use the whole field (or to lay off low breaking balls).

This is a poor choice of words, in my opinion. It implies unwillingness, as opposed to inability, to improve himself. Unless you have concrete evidence of such unwillingness (which I seriously doubt you have!), and can demonstrate that Howard could have become a different hitter if he had only tried to, you should probably avoid unsubstantiated assertions that read as pejoratives.

[EDmuch]

More than unwillingness, Manuel publicly insisted that Ryan continue to go for the long ball and not make adjustments to the shift. I always felt that Manuel born a significant part of the responsibility for Ryan's failure to develop as a hitter.

[Austinfan]

Ryan Howard’s Career Is Dead. The Shift Killed It.

"While some hitters try to overcome the shift with well-timed bunts or tactical changes, Howard always stubbornly refused. “All you can do is continue to swing,” Howard said in a 2015 interview with MLB.com."

Did the shift ruin Ryan Howard’s career?

https://www.crossingbroad.com/2017/06/this-is-a-gross-oversimplification-of-ryan-howards-downfall.html
http://www.philliesnation.com/2014/04/ryan-howard-and-the-shift-an-analysis/

[zambonir]

Well, that's more irrational exuberance (which also leads to disappointment). I am not ready to count Williams or Altherr as future all-stars. I'll settle for solid major leaguers. Crawford and Kingery aren't even in the conversation yet.

And we can all see what's potentially special about Hoskins but the sample size is still no bigger than Dom Brown (or Franco).

Whereas the jury is in on Herrera (but even so, people have been ready to give up on him or trade him, myself included, many times over the past two years).