GDT 6/29/22 Atlanta Braves (Wright) @ Philadelphia Phillies (Suárez, R)

[EDmuch]

We can complain about Moniak but the team was not built around him. Thus offense was supposed to be a five headed monster: schwaber, Harper, Hoskins, castellanos & Realmuto. The first three mentioned gave done their job, although Bryce is now gone for at least 3 weeks. The blame falls squarely on Castellanos & Realmuto. Monism is an afterthought.

[zambonir]

I mean, most objective observers still didn't see this as better than an 85-86 win possible wild card team, and they still are. If you think the manager has made a difference we can only imagine how many wins were squandered early too.

But when you combine the absence of Harper w/ the struggle of JT and Castellanos, things can be ugly. We shall see. But placing all your bets on over 30 players at free agent prices is rarely a great plan (the injured 2B and past-his-prime SS are not insignificant factors either).

[zambonir]

And nobody even commented on Appel! Gotta be a weird feeling for him. But hey, we've seen enough guys in that spot turn it into an 8-1 game so good for him. Some nights that might have even meant they still had a chance.

[LoneStarPhan]

Appel with a scoreless, one hit inning. Good to get the first inning into the record book. Time will tell whether or not he can be a productive ML relief pitcher.

[allentown]

The blame falls squarely on Castellanos & Realmuto

When an unsuccessful (a single barely winning season in a decade certainly counts as such), which doesn't seem to have great, or possibly even good scouts and other professional baseball staff, signs a guy near the end of the FA signings (and loses a draft pick to do so) and thinks they got a real bargain -- likely they missed something that teams with superior professional baseball staff did not miss, which is why Castellanos was still on the market. When the Phillies think they have outsmarted the rest of MLB, it is foolish to think they are right. Unfortunately, there was a time when we had that superior baseball staff: the guys who found Rollins in round 2 and departed from the conventional wisdom, which downgraded Utley and Hamels. We simply aren't that organization now.

[zambonir]

Well, the Phillies have had the same major league scouting director since Ed Wade. That's who is supposed to scout opposing players, both major and minors, for possible acquisition. The last holdover besides Sal.

But in Castellanos's case I doubt Dombrowski relied on a lot of information from his baseball people. That was his guys. And I don't necessarily think he's cooked, this year or going forward. But it was still a mistake given the cost (both the pick and $) as well his (lack of) position.

And this is the guy they busted the cap for!

[Philsmania]

I'm afraid that the Phillies without Harper will remind us of the Phillies without Howard in 2012-13 when the lineup seemed completely lost without him.

[zambonir]

I think they still would have been lost with him! 2012 is also when Roy stopped being an ace. Rollins and Utley and Vic were no longer star-caliber either, though Chase had something left in the tank. Problem is we didn't get to enjoy this core of players when they were cheap and in their prime.

[BaseballCat]

I don’t know where the season goes, but I did enjoy seeing the MLB debuts of Appel and Hall. I wish Hall got a hit, but maybe tonight. Castellanos seems a bust at this point, but I can only hope something clicks soon. Lindor was a bust last season and has come to life this year, but he is a few years younger. I hope DD figures out how to get out of the mess he created. Get well Bryce - we need ya

[Philsmania]

I hope DD figures out how to get out of the mess he created.

The mess Klentak created and DD tried to spend us out of.

[zambonir]

The mess Middleton created.

Ironically Klentak's biggest trade/free agent moves once the rebuild ended were almost uniformly good, in and of themselves: Segura (even if we didn't like the price), JT and Didi (the first time) Wheeler. Only Cutch a big disappointment but he wasn't a total washout.

Relievers, of course, not so much. And that has basically continued. And drafting and development the real problem. Klentak certainly didn't create that problem, but it was the one problem (along with analytics) he was supposed to fix!

At least neither of them have signed any failed expensive starting pitchers (Arrieta was a disappointment but not a failure).

[Philsmania]

Even though JT is having a disappointing season in 2022, that trade is looking good for us. The Marlins already cut bait on Alfaro (who looks like a backup catcher at this point), Sixto is probably an injury reclamation project at this point (I wonder if he will miss this season, too) and Stewart doesn't appear on any of the Marlins' top prospect lists.

[zambonir]

You can debate whether the trade should have come with an extension and now you can also debate whether the Phillies should have extended him but I don't think the latter argument gets very far - even if he craters/is overpaid they weren't going to get more out of the catcher position from 2021-2023.

[EDmuch]

O"Hoppe in 2023 ???? that seems like a possibility that would be better than JT.
It seems to me the issue with JT is whether his offense has crumbled to the point that he is no longer valuable as a DH of 1b. I know at one point people discussed moving him to 1b. But you can't be a championship competitive team with a 1b who hits less than 10 home runs.

[EDmuch]

Article in The Athletic today discussing trade candidates mentions that now is the time to move O"Hoppe because he is a hot commodity right no and there is no where he can play in Philly with JT signed long term and 237 DH's already on the roster. The suggestion is that O'Hoppe could net a solid position player who is signed thru at least 2023. No specific player is mentioned. Obviously Reynolds or Mullins could be targets but the Pirates and the O's both have first round picks in their systems as catchers.

[bkox]

Why are we moving him to 1B or DH? Hes the 2nd most valuable catcher in the NL and 3rd in MLB based on WAR.. despite his offensive struggles.

[EDmuch]

I did not say anything about moving him. But I seem to recall people not worrying about his 4th or 5th year of this contract because he could be moved to 1b or DH.

[EDmuch]

Could O'Hoppe be converted to an outfielder?

[zambonir]

I think it's the same deal with O'Hoppe - the major league hitter he is likely to become only plays at catcher. Or maybe 3B. And it's still not a sure thing he's an top everyday catcher. God knows that even if you're not cynical about, y'know, every Phillies prospect, you can't make too much of Reading.

I think it was always a stretch to think JT would be anything but dead money by Year 5, But he's almost definitely the best catcher in Year 3, and probably still good enough to mostly catch in Year 4.

(That's not say I wouldn't trade JT because I'd trade anybody not named Harper before I'd just keep fiddling around the same core for another two seasons.)

[BostonRoss]

There is a team out in California that is going nowhere, that has a decent 30-year-old centerfielder who is paid a lot, and who might need a catcher as their current catchers are Brock Stassi's brother and Kurt Suzuki, who's almost as old as Ichiro Suzuki. I think that centerfielder might be OK playing in Philly.