21 Philadelphia Phillies (Howard) @ Los Angeles Dodgers (Gonsolin)

kikutaro 2021-06-15 05:20:30 UTC #81

Jean Segura

Called strike (93.7 mph sinker)
Foul (94.7 mph cutter)
Ball (94.7 mph cutter)
Ball (95.9 mph sinker)
Swinging strike (blocked) (84.1 mph slider)

Jean Segura strikes out swinging.

	1	2	3	4	5	6	7	8	9	R	H	E
Philadelphia Phillies	1	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	1	8	0
Los Angeles Dodgers	0	0	0	2	1	0	0	0		3	3	1

Current Batters

Philadelphia Phillies

Hitters	AB	R	H	RBI	BB	K	AVG	OBP	SLG	OPS
Odubel Herrera CF	4	1	0	0	1	0	.275	.341	.438	.779
Jean Segura SS	5	0	1	0	0	3	.335	.384	.473	.856
J.T. Realmuto C	4	0	1	0	0	1	.294	.402	.477	.879
Bryce Harper RF	4	0	2	1	0	0	.277	.391	.476	.867
Rhys Hoskins 1B	4	0	0	0	0	1	.238	.311	.446	.757
Andrew McCutchen LF	2	0	0	0	2	0	.222	.339	.420	.759
Alec Bohm 3B	4	0	1	0	0	2	.225	.265	.308	.574
Ronald Torreyes SS	3	0	1	0	0	1	.286	.306	.400	.706
Brad Miller 2B	1	0	0	0	0	1	.273	.338	.463	.801
Spencer Howard P	2	0	1	0	0	1	.250	.250	.500	.750
Connor Brogdon P	0	0	0	0	0	0	.000	.000	.000	.000
Matt Joyce PH	0	0	0	0	0	0	.104	.267	.250	.517
Luke Williams PH	1	0	1	0	0	0	.455	.455	.818	1.273
Bailey Falter P	0	0	0	0	0	0	.000	.000	.000	.000
Travis Jankowski PH	1	0	0	0	0	0	.429	.429	.429	.857

Los Angeles Dodgers

Hitters	AB	R	H	RBI	BB	K	HR	AVG	OBP	SLG	OPS
Mookie Betts CF	3	0	0	0	1	1	0	.250	.366	.445	.812
Gavin Lux SS	3	1	0	0	0	1	0	.244	.302	.399	.701
Justin Turner 3B	3	0	0	0	0	1	0	.278	.369	.485	.853
Will Smith C	3	1	1	2	0	0	1	.271	.368	.471	.839
Matt Beaty 1B	2	0	0	0	0	1	0	.275	.368	.392	.760
Albert Pujols 1B	1	0	1	0	0	0	0	.223	.272	.439	.711
Chris Taylor 2B	3	1	1	1	0	0	1	.275	.389	.475	.865
AJ Pollock LF	3	0	0	0	0	1	0	.262	.316	.429	.745
Zach McKinstry RF	3	0	0	0	0	2	0	.253	.297	.434	.730
Tony Gonsolin P	1	0	0	0	0	0	0	.000	.000	.000	.000
David Price P	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	.000	.000	.000	.000
Joe Kelly P	1	0	0	0	0	0	0	.000	.000	.000	.000
Victor Gonzalez P	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	.000	.000	.000	.000
Blake Treinen P	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	.000	.000	.000	.000
Jimmy Nelson P	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	.000	.000	.000	.000
Andy Burns PH	1	0	0	0	0	0	0	.200	.333	.200	.533
Kenley Jansen P	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	.000	.000	.000	.000

Current Pitchers

Philadelphia Phillies

Pitchers	IP	H	R	ER	BB	K	HR	P-K	ERA
Spencer Howard	4.0	2	3	3	1	4	2	67-42	5.09
Connor Brogdon	1.0	0	0	0	0	2	0	17-11	4.81
Bailey Falter	3.0	1	0	0	0	1	0	38-25	3.60

Los Angeles Dodgers

Pitchers	IP	H	R	ER	BB	K	P-K	ERA
Tony Gonsolin	3.2	4	1	1	3	5	81-51	3.38
David Price	0.2	1	0	0	0	0	15-11	3.74
Joe Kelly	1.1	1	0	0	0	0	15-11	5.84
Victor Gonzalez	0.1	1	0	0	0	0	6-4	2.01
Blake Treinen	1.0	1	0	0	0	2	15-11	3.04
Jimmy Nelson	1.0	0	0	0	0	2	16-10	2.08
Kenley Jansen	1.0	0	0	0	0	1	9-6	1.63

andyb 2021-06-15 12:16:48 UTC #82

After watching this start I am not sure that Howard should work out his issues in the majors. He lost velocity again and he really was a 2-pitch pitcher with his fastball and curve. He hardly used his change and when he did it was mediocre with none of the downward movement we saw a couple of years ago. The slider was also pretty ineffective.

He really looks like a pitcher working on stuff that can get lucky for a couple of innings but has trouble the 2nd time through the lineup. Moore and Anderson are not any better of course, but Howard could be better with a couple of months working on his mechanics in the minors.

Philsmania 2021-06-15 14:23:54 UTC #83

Almost sounds like you are describing the next Ryan Madson.

andyb 2021-06-15 15:37:29 UTC #84

Not sure I would say Ryan Madson. An issue with Howard right now is not having a good pitch that he throws in the mid-80s. The speed differential between the fastball and the loopy curve is not a bullpen mix. That curve is a good pitch for a starter who also has that mid-range pitch.

Another part of this is pure velocity though. He loses a couple mph after 2 innings but remember even in the first he is more 94 than 96. I think we are looking at a guy with the stuff to be a back end starter, not the number 2 or 3 we were hoping for a couple of years ago. Frankly he got lucky the first 2 innings. It helped that he could strike out some batters with a fastball touching 95-96 in the first couple of innings, but the lack of a changeup really stood out for me.

I don't think he is hurt. I just think he has significant mechanical issues to deal with that have been compounded by all the layoffs. If he could get his changeup back he is probably better than Velasquez because he throws more strikes. But if he is a 2-pitch pitcher than he is not better, because his command is such that he can get beat on home runs just like yesterday.

California_Dreamin 2021-06-15 16:15:15 UTC #85

Sounds like a reliever, maybe a closer to me, at least right now. Earl Weaver would agree. Hitters average .096 the first time they see Howard. Bet its higher than that for Neris. But we all know the Phils never think outside the box, they only think outside the boxes already used by the Dodgers and Rays.

zambonir 2021-06-15 16:36:48 UTC #86

The problem is you can't have a closer - or any high-end reliever - who can only pitch every five days. That seemed to be the reason why they converted him back to starting, he wasn't used to a reliever's schedule (both the high usage and the occasional lack of usage), and if he's running out of gas in the third inning of his starts, what would he look like pitching twice in three days?

But he also pitched well enough to win, and Girardi may have stayed with him too long. For the moment he's no better or worse an option than any other 5th starter. Thing is, by the time he figures it out (at either level) he'll have hit his innings limit, so the need to upgrade exists no matter what.

This should also come to a head as Moore's rehab clock expires and Anderson comes off the COVID IL (which still seems suspicious), though every time I think that another injury or roster move pops up.

andyb 2021-06-15 16:41:39 UTC #87

Not so sure about that. If he is a 3-4 inning pitcher, would we be better running Falter out there for 95 pitches? Howard being better than Anderson or Moore showed is really not saying much. I think they need more from that position and if Howard cannot hold velocity for more than 2 innings then they are better off with somebody else in the 5th spot (perhaps from outside the organization).

zambonir 2021-06-15 16:49:58 UTC #88

Well, who's to say Falter could last 95 pitches or wouldn't get rocked in the 5th inning himself but I guess there's only one way to find out.

Seems like we may yet see Moore again, in that he is rehabbing as a starter. But he's also not been good, apparently.

andyb 2021-06-15 16:53:33 UTC #89

The point is that Spencer was not that good last night. He was getting hitters out in a big park with two pitches and some luck in the first couple of innings. And if he deteriorates after 30-40 pitches then regardless of current options, he is just not that good.

Even at his best he looks like a back end starter now. His stuff is not what it was a couple of years ago. A back end starter for 2-3 innings is just not valuable and maybe the team needs to give him time in the minors to get back to that pitcher of 2-3 years ago. This is not "wasting bullets in the majors". It is a pitcher whose bullets may not be better than guys like Falter.

phillychuck 2021-06-15 16:59:02 UTC #90

With a young, controllable pitcher you still have to target making him a starter since the value of a starter is SO much greater than that of even a good closing reliever. I agree with Andy that he needs some time in AAA to work on a third pitch; ideally a change-up.

I wonder if Howard is still dealing with a slightly sore, tired shoulder from his previous injury.

zambonir 2021-06-15 17:00:59 UTC #91

But he still pitched well enough for them to win. And as Gelb noted:

The Phillies have allowed six runs in 24 1/3 innings pitched by Howard and his tandem partner. They will happily take a 2.22 ERA from the No. 5 spot in the rotation even if it requires them to earmark two pitchers for what would typically be one person’s job.

Now, maybe this isn't sustainable, and as Gelb also noted it gets a lot harder once June ends. But then they'll only have 2-3 weeks before a possible trade.

We'll see what they do about the next couple of starts. And also possibly skipping them?

andyb 2021-06-15 17:06:30 UTC #92

I think his "first time through the lineup" stats are largely due to his lack of a change now. This does not excuse the velocity being lower than a couple of years ago but it does suggest he needs another weapon to get hitters out a second time. When Girardi says his stuff did not really fall off, it is a bit of a crutch ignoring this lack of a third pitch. And the stuff did fall a bit. 92 MPH on the first home run. Hard to get away with that in a bad spot.

I think these articles have a lot of baseball-speak that is ignoring the problem. The previous article on Howard's mechanics being messed up was more on point and I don't think we saw much more last night to say he has solved that. Should he really be working through this in the majors? Even if he is marginally better than the Phillies' other options?

zambonir 2021-06-15 18:54:09 UTC #93

I mean, I really thought Howard was going to be our 4th-best starter, and, if not that, certainly our 4th-best bullpen arm. But whatever his lingering issues, mechanical or physical, obviously this season's rhythm hasn't served him well. He's gone from alternate site to AAA starter to MLB bullpen and back to starter. The remaining options are Falter, Sanchez (now apparently the #1 spot starter not currently up) or going back to Moore or Anderson. I assume he won't make a regular start in SF, but then they'll need to account for the doubleheader in NY. And they are keeping Falter on a starter schedule, which does make it easy to if they want to go with him, but at that point you are probably just flip-flopping the roles, not sending Howard down.

I do wonder what will happen to Moore, he either has to come back and be in the bullpen, go back on IL or get DFAed before the end of the month. And who knows what their intention is with Anderson.

andyb 2021-06-15 18:58:28 UTC #94

I think they bring Moore back. Question is what role. And Anderson has been out for long enough that they can justify 2-3 AAA rehab starts. So in 3 weeks, who really knows who is healthy and pitching well. I think Moore and Anderson get at least one more solid chance in the majors over the next 4-6 weeks before the Phillies move on.