GDT 4/21/24 Chicago White Sox (Nastrini) @ Philadelphia Phillies (Nola, Aa)

[phillychuck]

Small sample size to be sure. Would be nice to see that happen (roughly) for a whole season. I don't think we have ever had a pitching-centric team succeed in Philly (in the last century, at least).

[VoteForKalas]

Bohm continues to take, good to see

[zambonir]

The 2011 team was only 13th in runs and won 102 games. That rotation was for real, just like last year's Braves were for real. Just not memorable when you go out early in the playoffs.

[phillychuck]

Good point! 2011 was probably the best among all those teams, but didn't get the breaks in the playoffs.

[Florida_Sunshine]

And we developed 3 of the 5 starters.

[zambonir]

I don't know that I'd include Sanchez there (not drafted or signed by Phillies, was already at the 40-man point in his career which is why we had him in the first place).

[allentown]

I don't know that I'd include Sanchez there (not drafted or signed by Phillies, was already at the 40-man point in his career which is why we had him in the first place).

Or was FS referring to Hamels, Kendrick, and Worley on the 2011 team. In 2011 Halladay, Lee, and Oswalt were the top 4, along with Hamels, although Kendrick and Worley were essential, pitched well, and won 8 and 11 games.

[Philsmania]

Wow - look at those White Sox batting averagess. All but one is under .200.

In fact, 8 of 9 starters have lower batting averages than Castellanos.

And we think we have it bad. Poor pitching staff.

They are a really bad team, period. Some of their fielding miscues this past weekend were Keystone Kops vintage. Postgame Live on NBCSNP said on Friday that the White Sox are off to their worst start in the franchise's 124 year history. They tacked on two more losses after that.

[zambonir]

Or was FS referring to Hamels, Kendrick, and Worley on the 2011 team. In 2011 Halladay, Lee, and Oswalt were the top 4, along with Hamels, although Kendrick and Worley were essential, pitched well, and won 8 and 11 games.

I think he was referring to the current five.

Honestly I barely remember Kendrick being on that team (or how long he lasted in the organization after!). Blanton was the fifth starter on that team but got hurt in mid-May. Kendrick was the long man until then. I'm guessing Worley was Oswalt's injury replacement?

Guess that just goes to prove the point about always needing 6 or 7 starters.

[allentown]

Yes, Kendrick was in the pen, but 15 of his 34 2011 appearances were starts. He was brought straight from AA to Philly in 2007, when injuries forced the need. He appeared in 20 games -- all as the SP and logged 121 IP and 10 wins. In 2008 he appeared in 31 games with 30 starts and 151 IP. In 8 seasons in Philly, he compiled a 74-68 record and 4.4 WAR. He was a 7th round draftee. Worley was a rookie in 2011. He had 21 starts in 25 appearances and won 11 games. He had only one more year in Philly, being half of the trade for Ben Revere. He had 4.7 WAR in Philly and only 0.5 WAR after the trade.

[zambonir]

I remember Kyle Kendrick perfectly well, just don't remember him having that level of impact in 2011 vs. what he did in '07 and '08... or sticking around as long as he did after that. Ironic that he replaced Blanton in 2011 when it was essentially the opposite in 2008.

Also remember Worley/Revere trade, not a bad development/value outcome there either. Happ for Oswalt less so especially since that came on the heels of dumping Lee. But that era did not lack for talent that had been accrued under Arbuckle, a lot of it just got traded.

Anyway I do still think FS meant the current five. And I guess the Phillies did develop Sanchez, just not in the sense that he worked his way up the system. But he also never really pitched in AA or AAA for Tampa. His first Phillies season was 2020 in the extended/alternate camp.

[Philsmania]

Long way to go but, so far, we are winning the Meade for Sanchez trade.

[zambonir]

It's Mead. He is pretty rapidly turning into a failed prospect but it was never a bad trade. His ascension was a bit of a shocker. And Sanchez, after failing to be useful depth or a good reliever for a few years, is exceeding that floor.

[bkox]

He is pretty rapidly turning into a failed prospect

Hes only 23 and has 154 MLB plate appearances. I think its waaaaay too soon to say hes turning into a failed prospect. He put up a .900 OPS last season in AAA.

[zambonir]

Fair enough, I thought he'd gotten a little more time in the majors last year. So, not yet failed but also no longer a prospect (he's been removed from the MLB list anyway). If he was a Phillies player we'd be lamenting yet another slower development path instead of ROTY contention.

[julio]

If he was a Phillies player we'd be lamenting yet another slower development path instead of ROTY contention.

True... but is this evidence of Mead's not meeting reasonable expectations, or perhaps evidence of wildly inappropriate expectations on the part of (delusional?) phans?

[andyb]

Mead is a bit of a tweener as his defense has really not developed well. At 2B or 3B. Thus he has to hit and he has not quite hit enough to play regularly yet.

We may end up "winning" the trade, though Sanchez is far from a sure thing either. I think 40-man issues dictated the trade for Tampa at the time so those of us who liked Mead as a prospect thought we gave up too much for somebody that Tampa was forced to deal (and at the time really looked like a middle reliever at best).

[zambonir]

A little of both certainly.

I think it's still fair to say the Phillies had no idea Mead was a Top 100 prospect when they traded him and therefore gave up to much. But I also think Sanchez was supposed to be able to help the Phillies more a lot sooner, even if his ceiling had only been reliever or 5th starter. Now, at least, that's his floor.

[Philsmania]

It's Mead. He is pretty rapidly turning into a failed prospect but it was never a bad trade. His ascension was a bit of a shocker. And Sanchez, after failing to be useful depth or a good reliever for a few years, is exceeding that floor.

This came up in the context of Bailey Falter a couple of weeks ago but someone here--I forget who--said lefties sometimes take longer to develop completely. Maybe that's the case with Sanchez.

[zambonir]

I wonder if that is really true or if it just that lefties are more valuable/given more chances.