GDT 4/20/25 Miami Marlins (Gillispie) @ Philadelphia Phillies (Luzardo)

[dicemen99]

It is true. Right now the Phillies pen is one of the worst in baseball and no amount of word salad proves otherwise.

And, yes, Romano's ERA counts - he's been utilized like a top 4 guy. If he's not, nobody else has pitched their way in either.

Kerkering's 3 runs given up today and BS count as well. Today sat squarely on his shoulders, the HR atbat is a reminder that although he's going to be real good, he's still inexperienced and needs innings. But right now we're counting on him as a top 2 or 3 reliever.

Yes, maybe it gets better moving forward, not sure where that's coming from unless Romano truly just has to work some kinks out instead of being shot, or if we will have to wait for the trade deadline.

But right now they are right back to where they were a couple years ago, contending for the worst pen in baseball. It's a problem right now that you can't make better by talking circles around it.

[Philsmania]

Here's what I think the bullpen's problem is: the Phillies ownership is deep-pocketed but unlike the Dodgers, Mets and Yankees, there is a limit to that depth. With the budget maxed out, the Phillies had to dumpster dive for the back end of the bullpen. Dumpster diving is fine for front-end/middle inning guys and every now and then, you come up with a JC Romero or a a Jeff Hoffman who ends up becoming a backend guy. But, when you dumpster dive, you usually find trash and that's what the Phillies ended up with in Romano and Ross.

With $50 million coming off the books after this season, maybe the Phillies can spend some money there this winter.

[Lucky_Beagle]

I would hardly call someone with Roman's salary and pedigree a dumpster dive.

[zambonir]

It's just not anywhere near as bad as the 2020 bullpen, which had zero good late-inning relievers (this one still has two). And no statistics are meaningful, especially in a bullpen, over this small sample. (In fact, even the 2020 bullpen was small sample, but with only 60 games in the season there was no time to fix it when the first attempt failed even worse than the original group.)

For now you have to just keep hoping Romano (who still hasn't returned to a late inning/high leverage role) figures it out and Kerkering bounces back. It's the nature of the job. Where it could become a bigger concern is if they start being used more.

But, 22 games into this season, their bullpen owns the second-worst ERA (5.81) in baseball. They nearly blew a seven-run lead Saturday, then squandered a two-run lead in the eighth inning Sunday. They dropped the series finale to the Miami Marlins, 7-5, in 10 innings. Their relievers have pitched the second-fewest innings in MLB this season. Sunday marked the first time they lost a game when leading after seven innings.

For Phillies bullpen, a rough weekend raises familiar concerns: ‘Keep grinding...

Romano's not a dumpster dive, just an upside play like Kimbrel, Knebel, Brad Hand, Familia and several others. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't, but the general approach of avoiding multi-year relief pitcher deals and traditional roles has been effective for them. At $4 million Ross isn't a dumpster dive either (versus a Ruiz or Hoffman or Bellatti), though I'm not sure it was necessary to get him as rotation insurance versus getting a more experienced reliever.

[VoteForKalas]

It is the close cousin of dumpster diving called buying low off injury with Romano.

They are paying him 8.5M for 1 year, betting that he is fully recovered from the injury and can find his previous form.

We'll see how the season unfolds, but I expected him to start rough as he gets back into a groove and finds command of his pitches.

[zambonir]

The concern is sometimes you need a full year (or more) to fully bounce back from a major injury. But in Romano's case supposedly he looked fine in his workouts and he looked great in spring training.

Bullpens are more important than ever - not sure anyone in the '08 pen could pitch on this team besides Lidge and Madson, including the LHPs - but they are still not as important as people make them out to be, especially before October. We're 13-9 and as the Athletic article noted this was the first of those nine losses to involve a later inning blown lead.

[dicemen99]

The whole point here IS October.

Our starting pitching is going to make being in contention for a playoff spot late in September the bare minimum. The bullpen will probably determine if we are sitting comfortably or having heart palpitations down the stretch. Obviously, you would prefer to be comfortable.

And we will add to the pen in October from the starting staff. But they SHOULD be adding to a base that will make your pen a weapon, not plugging holes. I can guarantee you that there will be at least one team that will have a pen like that in the postseason. And that team will have a good chance to be in the WS.

That's our path in October. That's how we get on a roll or a heater. We don't have the lineup to match-up deep in the playoffs - I think that's fairly obvious based on our track record over the past couple of years. We need to pitch our way there. And the pen is going to pitch 40% of your innings in October. We can't have a leaky pen.

[andyb]

If things don't improve we will add bullpen help before the deadline. It is definitely worth giving what we have an extended chance though. We are over .500 and relatively close to first place even with all of this. And if we actually have 7 starters, 2 or 3 of those could be in the bullpen in October. We do still have some AAA options to try also and at least one will surface most likely. We are very bad right now. But the pitchers we have are better than they have shown so far. If we need to get something at the deadline we will.

[zambonir]

We had a great pen last year, supposedly improved it in July, and then it leaked everywhere in October. The team played like .675 baseball with a pen that wasn't deemed good enough in July, and.500 baseball with one that was. The 2023 team had a good pen until Kimbrel and Alvarado (and Kerkering) weren't good enough in October. You just never know.

Regardless, they have to go with what they have now (including what's in AAA which isn't much), and will be adjusting as the season wears on. If someone stinks badly enough to get waived or DFA'ed in June, they will be. Adding/changing an arm or two in July is inevitable. Opting for Suarez or Painter as a reliever also still on the table.

Right now the only change that could be made is if you traded Walker, which still seems unlikely (and unwise vs. still having the deep rotation). They could sign David Robertson but he wants $10 million supposedly and we've never actually seen him pitch better than Romano or Kerkering's ceiling in a Phillies uniform.

It's really not that different from last year, when the two best relievers were Hoffman and Strahm, Alvarado and Seranthony weren't consistent, and you didn't ever really want to see Soto in tighter spots. Alvarado being back means we still have that same basic spread, except both the consistent guys are LHPs.

[andyb]

I guess I would think about swapping Lazar for Hernandez now as a useful middle inning arm. I have seen enough of Hernandez to risk losing him on waivers. I am assuming Ranger is going to make at least one more minor league start though I guess we have to figure out what Walker's injury was.

Big changes can wait. I am also curious at some point to see if Abel's stuff might play up out of the bullpen, though that is more of a second half question.

Note Lazar last pitched Friday so he is fresh as well.

[zambonir]

It sounds like Walker is fine. Just tightened up after a long offensive inning. Not expected to miss a start. Given the gravity of this road trip (including some guys not being available tonight) and Nola's season so far DFAing Hernandez might not be a bad move though. Devin Sweet looking okay too.

When Ranger comes back the ideal scenario would be for Ross and Walker to both provide quality middle relief without ever pitching on consecutive days. Otherwise you have to try to get Kerkering, Romano and Ruiz to do the jobs they are here to do, same as the struggling position players.

[David_Criss]

Hernandez wasn't good enough to make the Royals pen. Can't imagine he costs that much, but is he hurting the team? Wouldn't mind seeing him sent packing opening the door for Kuhnel or Lazar. But how much of a difference maker is that move? Sweet looks good, but the walks scare me.

[zambonir]

Changing the 8th guy never does much, it's true. But if he's losing his spot to Ranger anyway you could try someone else in the meantime. Either way we'll probably see a bit of Banks tonight since Strahm won't be available.

[andyb]

Beyond Lazar I think the next guy up is probably the new guy they picked up de Geus. Big arm who has been pitching well that is on the 40 already. But since Lazar is pitching well and really out of Spring Training was sent down because he had all 3 options remaining - I think he is the guy that helps now. Sweet and de Geus also have 2 options so they would be the next choices. I doubt they go off the 40 at the moment and 2 of the others (Kuhnel and Vespi) are out of options so they would have to stick with the Phillies.

[zambonir]

I was impressed with the series Rojas had this weekend. I have for some time felt that the Phillies should have (and still should) give Rojas a month or two of being the starting centerfielder. Let's give him a shot at showing if he can be a full-time starter.

I am not sure how that is sustainable without trading either Marsh or Kepler, but they plan to send Marsh to AAA for rehab so we should see it for at least a couple of weeks.