GDT 4/15/18 Philadelphia Phillies (Lively) @ Tampa Bay Rays (Yarbrough)

[kikutaro]

Duffy, M

Called strike (94.0 mph four-seam fastball)
Called strike (81.2 mph slider)
Ball in dirt (82.1 mph slider)
Foul (83.5 mph slider)
In play, out(s) (93.7 mph four-seam fastball)

Matt Duffy grounds out, second baseman Scott Kingery to first baseman Carlos Santana.

	1	2	3	4	5	6	7	8	9	R	H	E
Philadelphia Phillies	0	0	4	0	1	0	0	5	0	10	8	1
Tampa Bay Rays	2	0	0	1	0	0	0	1	0	4	11	2

Final

---

Philadelphia Phillies

Hitters	AB	R	H	RBI	BB	K	HR	AVG	OBP	SLG	OPS
Hernández, C DH	4	2	1	1	1	1	0	.275	.422	.431	.853
Santana 1B	4	0	0	0	1	2	0	.154	.254	.327	.581
Herrera CF	3	1	0	0	2	0	0	.327	.389	.429	.818
Hoskins LF	2	2	1	1	2	0	0	.326	.474	.581	1.055
Kingery 2B	5	1	2	3	0	1	0	.280	.315	.540	.855
Franco 3B	5	1	1	2	0	0	0	.237	.295	.474	.769
Altherr RF	5	1	1	3	0	2	1	.083	.214	.250	.464
Knapp C	4	1	1	0	0	1	0	.190	.292	.190	.482
Florimón SS	4	1	1	0	0	1	0	.222	.300	.333	.633
Lively P	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	.000	.000	.000	.000
Milner, H P	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	.000	.000	.000	.000
Ríos, Y P	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	.000	.000	.000	.000
García, L P	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	.000	.000	.000	.000
Morgan P	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	.000	.000	.000	.000
Ramos, E P	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	.000	.000	.000	.000

Tampa Bay Rays

Hitters	AB	R	H	RBI	BB	K	HR	AVG	OBP	SLG	OPS
Span DH	4	1	2	2	1	0	1	.225	.360	.375	.735
Gómez, C RF	5	0	0	0	0	2	0	.175	.230	.333	.563
Kiermaier CF	1	1	1	0	0	0	0	.163	.250	.233	.483
Field CF	4	0	2	0	0	1	0	.286	.375	.429	.804
Cron 1B	4	1	1	0	0	1	0	.216	.268	.333	.601
Smith, M LF	5	1	2	1	0	1	0	.350	.409	.475	.884
Duffy, M 3B	5	0	1	0	0	1	0	.254	.290	.339	.629
Wendle 2B	2	0	0	0	1	1	0	.263	.370	.474	.844
Sucre C	4	0	2	1	0	2	0	.313	.333	.313	.646
Robertson SS	4	0	0	0	0	1	0	.261	.469	.304	.773
Yarbrough P	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	.000	.000	.000	.000
Andriese P	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	.000	.000	.000	.000
Kittredge P	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	.000	.000	.000	.000
Roe P	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	.000	.000	.000	.000

Philadelphia Phillies

Pitchers	IP	H	R	ER	BB	K	HR	P-K	ERA
Lively	4.0	7	3	3	0	5	1	66-41	5.87
Milner, H	0.1	0	0	0	0	0	0	2-2	2.70
Ríos, Y (W, 2-0)	1.1	2	0	0	0	1	0	21-13	2.08
García, L (H, 2)	1.1	0	0	0	0	0	0	11-8	3.24
Morgan	0.0	1	1	0	1	0	0	13-7	4.26
Ramos, E	2.0	1	0	0	1	4	0	39-25	0.00

Tampa Bay Rays

Pitchers	IP	H	R	ER	BB	K	HR	P-K	ERA
Yarbrough (L, 0-1)	4.2	3	5	2	2	2	0	88-58	2.84
Andriese	2.1	1	2	2	2	3	0	43-25	8.31
Kittredge	1.0	4	3	3	0	2	1	30-20	5.59
Roe	1.0	0	0	0	2	1	0	22-11	3.86

[zambonir]

Which team had a "bullpen game" again? (No matter, it's the score that counts.)

[LoneStarPhan]

Another solid win for the Phillies. Not a great start from Lively but today, the offense put up enough runs to make it a smooth win and another sweep of a 3 game series. The bullpen also got the job done inspite of a few rough spots, 5 innings with only one (unearned) run given up.

I am looking forward to taking on the Braves in Atlanta and hope we can take at least two of the three games there.

[harrisburghusker]

This is looking like an AL team...and I mean that in a good way

[LoneStarPhan]

Rios, probably the reliever who put up the worst performance, gets the win since the starter didn't go the required 5 innings. If the official scorer has discretion in naming the reliever who should get the win, I would suggest it should be Garcia.

[donaldorc]

I'm beginning to believe! Now if only they can smack the Braves around like they did to us!!

[zambonir]

The win rule is always a little shaky but he didn't give up any runs (not even inherited) and that's what determines wins, holds (which he would have otherwise gotten) or saves, not merely allowing baserunners.

[BostonRoss]

Can a pitcher get a hold if he maintains the lead but pitches before the winning pitcher

[zambonir]

I think not (or Milner would have gotten one right?).

But I meant Rios would have gotten a hold if Lively had gotten the win. Which, really, if you're gonna start handing out wins to pitchers who weren't in the game for very long, he may as well have.

[Lucky_Beagle]

Can a pitcher get a hold if he maintains the lead but pitches before the winning pitcher

to the best of my knowledge in this case no since he pitched before the 5th inning was completed, my understanding is a save can only be earned if it were a save situation at the time (although I don't think a 3 run lead would grant a hold like it does a save in the 9th inning.
Can a pitcher get a hold before the winning pitcher.....technically yes, however I believe it would require another relief pitcher to be charged with a blown save and yet another relief pitcher to get the win. (of course yet another relief pitcher could get a save!)

[BostonRoss]

Thanks, Z and LB. LB, you're right of course that the hold is not an official statistic. I looked on baseball-reference, and the description says that a pitcher getting a hold has to enter the game in a save situation. Presumably you can't have a save situation in the first five innings, and so Milner would not be eligible.

But it is still not clear to me whether a pitcher who enters after the fifth inning can get a hold before the eventual winning pitcher pitches. For instance, in today's game if Rios and Garcia hadn't been very effective but never gave up the lead, the scorer could have decided to give the win to Ramos, especially if the Phillies had had a smaller lead when he entered the game. Would that mean that Rios and Garcia would not have received holds? I guess the question is whether a save situation requires that the winning pitcher has already pitched (which may not be known at the time the pitcher enters the game). I would think not since the game situation is the same either way.

https://www.baseball-reference.com/bullpen/Hold

[Austinfan]

Lively looked awful, they were lighting him up like beating on a Pinata.
With Leiter and Eickhoff throwing, Hutchinson in the bullpen, he'd better turn it around quickly.

Rios, Ramos and Arano are going to make Klentak's life hard when Leiter, Eickhoff and Hunter are ready to return, not to mention Neshak.

Rios was a little wild, but that funky 3/4 motion and a 96-97 MPH FB covers a lot of sins.
Ramos has a plus breaking ball, and Arano seems to have regained his velocity.
Guess the bullpen won't be a weak spot this year.

[zambonir]

Geez the kid's made three starts and the first two were decent. He'll still lose his job to Eickhoff because Eickhoff and Arrieta's delay are the only reason he was in the rotation to begin with but those other guys aren't threats. And really Leiter should just replace Hutchison.

[Austinfan]

Problem for Lively is he's unlikely to add velocity in the pen.
So if Eickhoff retakes the #5 spot, and Leiter takes Hutchinson's spot, is there room for Lively in the pen?
And with Eflin, Thompson, Anderson et al at Lehigh, he may just get shipped somewhere that can use his potential innings eating frame.

[andyb]

Why is Lively less likely to add velocity out of the pen than any other pitcher? We could easily have said that about Adam Morgan a year or two ago. Most pitchers can add a couple mph out of the bullpen. Now that might make more of a difference when you go from 94 to 96 than from 90 to 92 - but I am not sure there is anything physically about Lively that suggests he could not. One of his skills is endurance, so maybe you don't improve his value in short stints, but I would not close the door on increased velocity until they try it.

[Austinfan]

Guys who tend to add velocity in the pen are often pitchers who fade after a few innings, i.e., their issue is stamina.
So when they just throw 1-2 innings, they let it loose, see Morgan.

Lively strikes me as very strong, but lacks arm speed, so I don't see the same jump in velocity coming out of the pen. It varies from pitcher to pitcher, but to me his competitive advantage is to maintain velocity up to 100 pitches, but since he relies on deception, he needs to refine all his secondary pitches to make it through a lineup three times.

[andyb]

Guys who tend to add velocity in the pen are often pitchers who fade after a few innings, i.e., their issue is stamina.
So when they just throw 1-2 innings, they let it loose, see Morgan.

But you don't know any of that. We kind of never notice Lively's velocity because it is nothing special. Until you put him in a role it is always unknowable. Morgan as a starter initially was much like Lively except for being left-handed. We just have no evidence that his stuff will not play up in a shorter role until we try it.

[zambonir]

We all change our mind on a dime here, but I seem to recall you had Pivetta in AAA and Lively on the Phillies in spring training.

I don't think he'll get moved to the pen, unless they send Leiter or Hutchison to AAA. They'll find the starts for him in LV if they have to. It's all very premature in any case, Eickhoff hasn't thrown a pitch yet has he? Let's just hope nobody else gets injured or looks a lot worse against better opposition in the meantime.

[andyb]

I also don't really think it matters that much. Lively has always slotted as our 7th or 8th best starter. Maybe 10th in terms of talent. But he is inexpensive and also good enough to thrive in a 5th starter role if we had to put him there.

In terms of long men out of the bullpen I think we will rotate a couple of Thompson, Hutchison, Leiter, and Lively all year long. A big part of the Klentak strategy with the bullpen seems to be rotating the last 3 or 4 spots to the healthy and fresh and maybe hot arm. It is not like Mark Leiter (whose role this would have been if he had been healthy) is likely that great. To some degree all teams are doing this now. Our GM made it more of a priority when he combined a set of developing arms with a couple of free agent additions and put all of them on the 40-man roster.

I think Klentak may have a different attitude about the 40-man roster than some GMs. Ideally he does not want to include players that cannot contribute on the major league roster for years unless they are special like Alfaro. I think he wants most 40-man pitchers to pitch in the majors periodically if they are taking up a roster spot.