GDT 4/11/25 Philadelphia Phillies (Nola, A) @ St. Louis Cardinals (Pallante)

[Lucky_Beagle]

Why were they scheduled to play a night game on get a way day knowing they had a game the next day? Especially when the home team had an off day. From a competitive stand point it made no sense and should have been complained about by the players union and owners,

[andyb]

I blame the Braves. They probably don't want to schedule afternoon games during the week in their suburban stadium. Those games probably don't draw as well as city-based day games. This is what I would write on the chalkboard in the clubhouse the next time they are in Atlanta. If chalkboards still exist.

[zambonir]

Yeah the Braves apparently don't do midweek day games. If the travel time for the Phillies had mandated an earlier start per the CBA there would have been one.

Beyond that, the league gets more say than the home team and the game should have just been stopped given both the schedule and the distance between Philly and Atlanta wouldn't have made a make-up that difficult. But the Phillies probably were on board with not losing an off-day or needing pitchers for a mini-doubleheader on the road in late June.

[VoteForKalas]

Again, this is not a new trend or one game fluke.

The organization needed to make more significant changes ro the lineup this offseason to address the known flaws. They only brought in LHB and LF Kepler that created new problems.

We know the reasons are financial in that they have maxed out what they want to spend and refuse to retool. So they are all in with one hand tied behind their back before the games even begin.

They still depend on guys like Turner, Casty and JT too much and the inconsistency of Bohm, Stott and Marsh hurts as well.

They'll win a lot of games because of the rotation and when the offense is hot, but against good pitching the offense will vanish and our reconfigured pen may not be as strong as past years to handle the better offenses. So when the games matter most, they will lose.

[zambonir]

I still think this is just looking through playoff-colored glasses at random events. Sure, the Phillies couldn't compete with the Mets or Dodgers for the biggest FAs, nor are they in the same spot the Braves have been in terms of having young (or returning injured) players. But those franchises were just as unsuccessful as the '23 and '24 Phillies were for three seasons ('22-'24 in Atlanta's case and '21-'23 in LA's), and this team - including the offense - is better than our '22 team.

If July comes and Bohm is looking like a non-tender and Marsh isn't producing in his usual role and Nick's not at .800 OPS and Kepler's a bust, then yeah, that's a lot of problems, but I don't know that any of them really could have been solved this off-season (by the likes of Bregman or Profar or Arenado or Santander, and there were no CFs out there). I have no problem with this being kind of a gap year if the smaller fixes don't work out (and if it's only one or two of them, they can be addressed at the deadline). I was interested in Tucker or Bellinger, but not at the price they fetched. I'm more pleased than frustrated by that decision.

This year's bullpen is also no worse than last year's bullpen. They had a ton of stiffs and disappointments while they were on their way to winning 110 games, and the changes didn't really make it better (even if the pen wasn't the reason they played .500 ball in the second half. But they were certainly the other reason for the playoff loss).

Kepler is really still the big second-guess, but signing Tyler O'Neil to a three-year deal or having yet another RHB half-measure wasn't gonna do it either.

And I don't view Turner as a problem. He's off to a solid start and almost hit .300 last year while putting up 3.0 WAR despite missing 25% of the season. We want more from him because he's done it in the past and because we know Bohm, Casty and JT really can't provide it.

[dicemen99]

Disagree.

Nick, Bohm (and Kepler) are known quantities and what they deliver is kind of expected - and could be lived with.

Take JT off the table - I said this was to be expected as well, but you can live with his offensive production even with Nick, Bohm and Kepler.

The issue for me was that the Phillies had an expectation of growth for Stott and Marsh that would compensate for the above. Stott doesn't have to become Utley, but certainly they were counting on him to grow into something more than Cesar Hernandez - and he is not even performing at that level IMO. It is obvious from how they have played Marsh, that they expect him to grow into something more as well - which hasn't happened.

That's why I am pointing at them. The miscalculations are with Stott and Marsh. I think they know what they have with Nick, Bohm and Kepler. If Stott and Marsh pan out like they planned, the inconsistencies of our "middle 3" are far less impactful.

[zambonir]

I guess I also disagree. Stott and Marsh are supplemental players who play good defense. And Cesar was a very good major league regular! He had a couple of good offensive years and a couple of bad ones and the rest in between. That's Stott, to me.

Unfortunately Nick, Bohm and Kepler are not at all known quantities. Nick might put up an .800 OPS every month like he did last year from June to September, he might be terrible like he was last April or in '22, he might be okay like he was in 2023. And Bohm is impossible to foresee either - in his case because it's still not clear if he'll ever reach his potential consistently, whereas Nick already did and is in age-related decline. When the Phillies tried and failed to trade both players they didn't then think, "oh well, we'll just get more from our LHB CF and 2B." What they did was sign an equally unknown (due to his injury and age) piece in Kepler.

I don't know why anyone is pointing at anyone right now though. The team is winning, they dropped a few games on the road, some players are thriving and some are struggling (Stott is not, compared to last year. Marsh is. Casty was our second-best hitter for a bit and has cooled. But even Harper has not really arrived yet.)

And they really haven't ever tried to make Marsh into an everyday player, and moving him to CF almost concedes that he'll never be at that level offensively as a corner OF. They like Kepler better against LHP but they also don't have RHB (who can hit) as an alternative to either.

[dicemen99]

I don't know how you can say that about Marsh. I know it is sss, but it is obvious at the beginning of this year they are trying to get him more at bats against LHP. And they did the same last year for stretches. They are trying to develop him into an everyday player - they've said this publicly and they've tried to do so, albeit unsuccessfully.

Just because your expectation of Marsh is that he is a good strong-side platoon that should be playing another position, does not mean this is the Phillies expectation of it. It seems that they are trying to get more and then have to fall back to your position. Miscalculation.

Same with Stott. If you think the Phillies have an expectation of him not growing into an All-Star level player, I think you are mistaken. Lot's of promise iin 2023 and then all the talk about the upper body injury effect in 2024. Again, I think miscalculation on their part - but probably not on yours.

Maybe the Phillies should put you in a primary front office position!

[zambonir]

I just don't see where they really have. He only got 90 PAs against LHP last year, they were happy to play Merrifield even when he stunk too, and they also preferred to carry two redundant RHB CFs to playing Marsh more. And when they signed Hays, Marsh didn't even get to keep being part of a platoon, they moved him to CF. And then they go out and get another LHB for the OF this year to boot. And they don't have anyone else righthanded to spell Marsh or Kepler (thus, we saw Sosa).

All three of our starting OFs are utterly replaceable if there was a way to get a true everyday player with a strong bat and adequate defense, but obviously that can't be done (and even if they'd been willing, the cost in FA money or trade capital would have been high). A Kepler/Casty or Marsh/Casty platoon would also be good but the Phillies don't believe in Rojas as an everyday CF in addition to not being ready to bench Casty (which is also not currently deserved). Maybe they go get Tucker or Bellinger or some other guy at the deadline.

But right now they still have a fantastic offense. I'm sure it doesn't look as good as it did two days ago statistically, but I also think we simply don't realize the other teams don't look better. That's especially been true of OFs (even corner OFs) and 2B, lately.

[flyers19rw]

No team can carry a guy hitting .118 in their lineup. TPTB don’t want to admit it but they gave up a quality prospect in O’Hoppe for a bust. Not saying that LOH shouldn’t have been moved since he was blocked by JT. However the return should have been better. Marsh has less to offer than Rojas and both may well be watching Crawford play CF by the AS break.

[zambonir]

The guy is in a slump. He had the third-highest WAR on the team last year, a hair ahead of JT, Turner and Bohm in more limited playing time. Was still close to .800 OPS against RHP and also overall the first half of last year.

It's a concern, just as it is for Bohm. But they are both good players who may turn out to be great players or average players. Still gotta play 'em.

It's unfortunate Marsh is not good enough in CF to get away with being a .700 OPS player. But Rojas still has to show he is that himself. And so does Crawford, in the bigs.