Coronavirus (sports-related only)

[BostonRoss]

Maybe they will still be playing when I get back to Boston and can watch a Phillies game that is not blacked out. My hotel does not have the games.

[zambonir]

The epidemiologists are certainly not impressed.

(If anyone wants a 30-day Athletic pass, DM me.)

Why did the Marlins play baseball on Sunday?

“I think that by any definition, this is an outbreak on their team,” said Dr. John Swartzburg, a clinical professor emeritus at UC Berkeley’s School of Public Health, Division of Infectious Disease. “And an outbreak on a team means that the team needs to close down.”

“Earlier, in (summer camp), if you didn’t have test results, you didn’t practice,” said Dr. Zachary Binney, an epidemiologist at Emory University’s Oxford College. “So to have four positive results and then play a game just seems totally unaligned with that.”

_Both Swartzberg and Binney said that if they were advising Major League Baseball, they would recommend hitting the pause button on the Marlins’ season, most likely for the next two weeks. _

Added Binney on Monday, after the additional positive tests were announced, “I’ve been saying for weeks that 3-4 cases in a few days should be enough to shut down a team. This is exactly why. Three to four cases is unlikely to stay 3-4 cases. Playing the game [Sunday] was stupid and reckless…. The Phillies sent their clubhouse attendants into a hot zone.”

[LoneStarPhan]

It seems clear that the Marlins disregarded numerous regulations in the MLB manual and have as a result seriously impacted several other teams and perhaps jeopardized the entire baseball season.

Miami should be severely penalized for their careless and flippant behavior.

[bkox]

Miami should be severely penalized for their careless and flippant behavior

With the phillies continued lack of success against them, I vote for complete contraction and removal from the league.

[bkeich]

I reluctantly admit that I now believe that Baseball and probably Football should be cancelled. It sucks, but honestly it is the only reasonable action at this point, not to say it is what will happen.

I talked with one of my best friends yesterday, a former college football player at Florida State and Georgia Tech, now 36 years old but still in great physical shape. He tested positive for covid-19 11 days ago when he nearly passed out while working out. He tells me that he is fine, but he can't believe just how bad and hard this was on him, he described as the worst 11 days of his life, no energy, persistent, heavy cough and the fear that he has permanently damaged his lungs. His wife suffers from Lupus and he has 2 tween daughters, trust me he is much more afraid of what could happen to them than any fears he has for himself. This is a guy probably in the 90th percentile of physical condition, not the same as a current athlete, but he is not in a high risk category and he tells me that he was in bad, bad shape a week ago fearing for his life and the lives of his family. This is not a guy who makes those statements out of paranoia, but really honest evaluation of the situation.

The simple fact is that if they continue to play sports eventually players are going to die. Even if you give them credit for physical conditioning, there will be 100s if not 1000 cases of Covid-19 among the players of Baseball, Football, College sports, etc. Just look at the Marlins, presumably 0 guys were positive during camp and in one incident it spread to at least 11 players and 2 coaches, and that is nothing to what could have happened to the Philies and Yankees if it had been caught 1 day later. If we keep getting cases in these numbers than eventually some athlete is going to succumb to the effects. It is simply irresponsible.

I miss sports, I really miss them, but I dont want my leisure time activity of following a sport to start costing people their lives. These guys work WAY to hard to get to this level of professional sports to just have them be executed because we want to watch. Basically, at the moment, we are watching gladiatorial combat, it just takes a little longer for the gladiator to die and it is a great deal more lingering and horrible way to do it.

I hope we end this. I want to say I refuse to follow sports until they can be played safely, but I doubt I would honor that pledge, so I will simply say I hope the choice is taken away from me.

[Lawman]

This, to me, is one of the problems. Even if MLB and all teams follow all of their precautions, there's no guarantees.

The plan is still for the Phillies to play their regularly scheduled game at Yankee Stadium on Wednesday night. The Phillies will travel to New York by bus on Wednesday.

Baseball's COVID-19 protocol calls for players to be tested every other day. Phillies players will be tested again Tuesday. They will be tested in their cars at the ballpark then drive home.

The problem here is that the tests aren't even close to 100% accurate, especially not the rapid ones. So if you have 2-3 players who tested false negative, and then get on the bus and infect the rest of the team, you have an issue. And, that's with following all of the MLB protocols.

Which is not to say they shouldn't play. But, it is to say that MLB/NFL plans of playing w/o being in a bubble carry risk, and outbreaks should be expected.

[Austinfan]

The idea you could have sports with players embedded in the general population was and is crazy.
I mean at least the NBA and NHL have a chance, though knuckleheads like Lou Williams are putting people at risk.

How are you going to police 30+ MLB players per team plus staff and 46+ NFL players plus staff and ensure they all avoid any contact while living in the outside world, especially in states like Florida and Texas. And once it gets into the clubhouse and practice field or games all bets are off.

I think a lot of wishful thinking is going on.

[LoneStarPhan]

So MLB had no problem allowing the Phillies-Marlins games this past weekend after several Marlins had already tested positive, but now they don't allow games after the Phillies tests are negative. Given, I guess, some tests are not back yet. Still, it is hard to imagine MLB doing a worse job handling all this.

Clearly, MLB has to get better, or they may as well just close up and go home now. Frankly, it is looking more and more like this whole season is about to fall apart.

Clearly, they must get tests that can give results very quickly. The current turn around time is not good enough to allow a safe season to be played.

[allentown]

So MLB had no problem allowing the Phillies-Marlins games this past weekend after several Marlins had already tested positive, but now they don't allow games after the Phillies tests are negative.

Exactly. Major League Baseball shot its feet off. A one-hundred plus page guidance on how to keep players safe and they prove in the first series that the whole thing is total farce. Then having totally failed to cancel Sunday's game, with ample reason to do so, they cancel Phillies-Yankees for no evidence-based reason whatsoever, just, I guess, as a showing of caring for player safety. You can't have it both ways. Either the 100+ pages of Covid rules required cancellation of the sunday game or it said Monday's game should be played. Both positions cannot be a correct interpretation of the rules.

The Commissioner bears a lot of blame, the Marlins management bears a lot of blame, and the Phillies management should have declared that the game could not be safely played and postponed it.

How many Phillies players and staff now have Covid? I've read baseball people say things like "highly unlikely the PHillies players would have been infected by playing the game". B.S. If they actually believed this, why was Monday's game cancelled, since the Phillies players should be no more likely to have a player with Covid than any of the other 30 teams, almost all of whom were allowed to play yesterday?

Posters have said that I shouldn't expect logic, but if baseball is operating under a very specific 100+ page set of Covid rules and has already switched to making illogical decisions which deviate from that stack of rules, then how can any player be safe?

Baseball's leadership has just proven itself to be untrustworthy greedy, you know whats.

Time to pull the plug on the season.

And just to underline the stupidity of playing Sunday's game: the starting pitcher was a gameday scratch for Covid. The team had been together for hours traveling prior to start of series, had been in clubhouse together. Obviously 'close contact' situation. Obviously an additional new case (the scheduled starting pitcher). What I've read makes it unclear whether Phillies management and players were aware that the scheduled SP was a Covid scratch when they agreed to play the game. If so, that is way beyond stupid, if not then I go back to my original view that severe punishment of Marlins is called for.

[andyb]

The real test will be with the Marlins the rest of the week. The medical advice for an outbreak like they had is a 5-day quarantine. Starting from Sunday or Monday. For the Phillies that would be ideal too, though if they have no positive tests I imagine MLB wants to power through. The 5 days is supposed to be the incubation period on average, so a player that got exposed on Sunday might not test positive till Friday.

The other thing that comes to mind is I wonder whether it is possible for players to have more like a 2-3 week incubation period. Or just have a mild version of the virus where one could easily test positive or negative. With the Nats I suspect Soto got the virus on that Dominican plane flight 3-4 weeks ago and did not test positive till opening day.

There is really no way to play baseball and combat these long incubation periods that might last weeks. I suppose you just have to enforce social distancing at all times. Maybe no clubhouses. Masks on the bases, etc. It is all a house of cards though and they'll need lots of luck to make it through.

[zambonir]

I miss sports, I really miss them, but I dont want my leisure time activity of following a sport to start costing people their lives. These guys work WAY to hard to get to this level of professional sports to just have them be executed because we want to watch. Basically, at the moment, we are watching gladiatorial combat, it just takes a little longer for the gladiator to die and it is a great deal more lingering and horrible way to do it.

To me this already describes football (and hockey to some extent).

[Austinfan]

Actually, playing the game wasn't that risky, Hoskins wore a mask with a runner on base, I hope Knapp did as well, the others probably were never exposed - it's not that easy to spread COVID outdoors.

The problem is any contact by Philly staff doing normal stuff around the visiting clubhouse.

[allentown]

Then why have two games against Yankees already been canceled. If nil risk of Phillies being infected by Marlins, then nil squared risk of Yankees being infected by Phillies.

[andyb]

Just caution. AF is right that playing outside is much less dangerous than being inside. Even if one is standing on 1B being held on.

The reason we are having all these outbreaks around the country is air conditioning combined with opening up indoor venues too early. The protests, thankfully, have not really spread the virus that much. It is indoor stores and businesses opening up with people going inside because it is 90 degrees outside.

All these teams are indoors passing each other in hallways even if they are not in the clubhouse that much. It does not mean the Phillies are perfectly safe from Sunday, but there is a good chance they are.

[zambonir]

It's not nil risk, it's low risk.

I don't know what the big mystery is here: if you think there should be a season, as MLB still does, the games were cancelled for PR reasons, and to make it look like they are serious about safety when they are not.

Or you think it's reasonable for them to be overly cautious, even having failed to be previously. Especially since it wouldn't just be the two teams, the Phillies would also be out in the community/home/travelling.

The more correct answer is probably there shouldn't be a season. As that one epidiemologist noted, why were positive tests and even delayed tests enough to cancel entire days of camp, but not games?

[julio]

The 5 days is supposed to be the incubation period on average, so a player that got exposed on Sunday might not test positive till Friday.

This, I think, is a key point.

There's little reason to expect any test of the Phillies, taken yesterday, to show up positive if one or more of them were infected on Sunday. It's simply too soon.

It's not clear to me whether a person is actually infectious to others, early in his/her own infection - e.g., if the virus hasn't replicated enough to be detected using PCR, has it replicated enough to be shed in enough concentration to infect others? I don't know, but it's a question I'd like to see answered.

But we do know that, if Rhys Hoskins were infected on Sunday afternoon, a test taken Monday might well not come up positive - because there's just too little viral RNA available to detect with PCR, and it's far too soon to find antibodies.

So quarantine is really the only measure available that makes sense - if players may have been exposed, you quarantine them long enough that the tests we have will be able to detect an ongoing infection. That's several days, and that implies that the entire Phillies contingent should be so quarantined.

[Lawman]

Ok, a few notes I've just come across on Twitter from various national reporters. Aggregating here for your ease of reading.

1) @BNightengale

The Miami Marlins' season has been officially paused, as
@CraigMish
reported, with the team in quarantine with 19 positive test results. They likely won't be playing again for another week.

2) @flasportsbuzz

Per source, Marlins staying in Philadelphia tonight as they await word on when season will resume. (They won't play today, Wednesday,Thursday and possibly beyond). They're not sure when returning to South Florida. Those who test positive must remain in quarantine in Pennsylvania.

3)@Ken_Rosenthal

One scenario under discussion, according to source with direct knowledge: Marlins, Phillies would quarantine for undetermined period. Yankees would travel to Baltimore and play Orioles on Wednesday and Thursday. Marlins, Phillies would try to make up postponed games later.

Phillies under this plan would return to play Friday against the Blue Jays at Citizens Bank Park - as the visiting team (under a previous plan due to Jays’ inability to play in Canada). Team would be isolated until then, not technically quarantined.

4) @jaysonst

MLB is literally rewriting the schedule on the fly in order to try to keep the other 28 teams moving forward with some sort of schedule.

[zambonir]

Seems to me at minimum, if they really think they can keep playing, MLB should be working on a neutral site/bubble playoff format. That's all the owners really care about and I don't see how they get that far w/o issues/cancellations/forfeits.

[andyb]

On the bright side it is OK to bring up Howard and Bohm now.

[Philsmania]

I don't know what's worse. That they played Sunday's Phillies-Marlins game or that the Phillies got their backsides handed to him in that game by a massively undermanned Marlin team.