2024-2025 Sixers Season

[andyb]

The problem stability-wise is that NIL keeps kids in school but not necessarily at the same school.

I'd probably go for a rule that allowed one transfer without sitting out a year. There definitely is too much shopping for 1-year NIL deals. We can't go back to the old system though. Kids need the ability to transfer like any college student.

[zambonir]

I think that actually is the rule, it just wasn't quite in place initially, especially with COVID exceptions/eligibility still in place. Though I might also just be thinking of football.

[bkeich]

He had already reclassified for this draft when he was in high school.

The problem stability-wise is that NIL keeps kids in school but not necessarily at the same school.

It keeps them enrolled in school, but they are not students. There is no intent to take real classes or get a degree, the NIL is just money as a pseudo professional representing a company, but that company has the name of a University.

[zambonir]

There's no simple or correct answer. Many of them do still get an education, especially after the first 10 guys on a football roster (and only that many at a true power) or five guys on a basketball roster. And even those guys sometime need to come back and finish their degree. Plus there's no college sports at all without the subsidy of football and basketball, including women's sports - even more so since the coming reforms and expanded scholarship limits.

In the end, yes, a major college football or college basketball team is really just licensing a brand from the university, but I don't know how you change or separate it. If there's ever actually a union/collective bargaining or employee structure, it will change in that way.

It's ironic really - any attempt to shift things to the G League in the NBA or establish a minor pro league in football (unlikely as that was) is pretty much dead now because of NIL. But there's also still no reason basketball players shouldn't be able to go pro immediately, as hockey and baseball players already can.

[bkeich]

Well, I do see a way, but it is radical. Eliminate all Sports Scholarships, Eliminate NIL. Completely

Free market will create minor leagues, there is money to be made. Make it a requirement to sign in those leagues to award a scholarship in those leagues (off season of course). Essentially like the baseball’s deal with scholarship.

I said radical right? Never happen, but it would eliminate all this foolishness.

I doubt anywhere near as many players get the education as you think. Remember in the 80s and before when players would sometimes miss games because of low grades? Never, never happens now.

I have seen many players interviewed, some are quite intelligent. Some are clearly NOT taking real college classes.

I went to a college that (supposedly) did not offer football scholarships (what was 1-AA). Most, if not all, of the football players had “need” scholarships, even though some of them were from affluent families (it was a way to offer football scholarships without calling them that). Almost no one else had “need” scholarships. It was fraud.

[Docs]

When i was in school, our football team was a top 25 program and there were star athletes with professional aspirations that took advantage of their educational opportunity and third stringers who did not. Doesn’t matter where they are on the roster or what their pro prospects are, some are there to play sports and some are there for both. And i think that’s fine.

In my ideal world i wouldn’t require players to stay academically eligible, because there are so many ways around it. I would offer the athletes a scholarship if they were interested, and if not give them a stipend. I would also like to see the ncaa evolve where players sign 3-5 year contracts with the schools rather than one year deals. Make it more in line with other professional sports. If the kid wants an out, make it like European soccer where another school has to buy their contract (player has to agree of course) so that the vacated school is compensated. Or the player has to pay back some of the NIL money if they leave the program before the contract expires. And in that world you could still sign players to one year deals. There’s lots of ways to resolve this where it benefits both parties.

[zambonir]

I doubt anywhere near as many players get the education as you think. Remember in the 80s and before when players would sometimes miss games because of low grades? Never, never happens now.

I would say the opposite actually. Every current athlete at the University of Texas this year in every sport, men and women, has a 3.0 GPA. The 4 2023 CFP teams graduated between 75 and 94% of their players in 2024 . And no, they don't all take "gut" classes or get fake good grades. And a lot of them get graduate degrees when they stay five (or even six years). Yeah, some of them are in sports management or kinesiology but those are still careers.

A lot of athletes do fail to graduate or drop out of school, and some get forced out of school if the coach doesn't want them anymore, which is awful. But - and this was always John Chaney's thing, and the reason for his opposition to Prop 48 - any college is still better than no college, and the system still does more good than bad for non-white and poor athletes.

[dicemen99]

Having played an NCAA sport in the 80s (non-scholarship), and then been the stepfather of a D1 scholarship athlete in the 2010s, I agree with @zambonir - it is quite the opposite of what you think.

Back in the 80s, support even for the scholarship athletes was minimal. There was some extra help, but for the most part athletes had to make their way in the classroom just like regular students. And as an aside, they were much more like a regular student in most all other ways as well. Some segration, but not like today.

The support available for today's scholarship athlete is incredible. If you are not cutting it academically, you are pretty much trying to fail out of school. My stepson's day was pretty much mapped out for him from the time he woke up to the time he went to bed - practices, training sessions, study sessions, tutoring sessions including things like paper reviews,e tc. They don't do the work for you, but you may as well have an academic shadow. They have too much invested in you to throw it away on bad grades. These kids are taking classes all year round as well, which wasn't the case back in the 80s. Summers, sometimes over winter breaks - constant accumulation of credits so they can load manage the kids who would normally struggle, which allows kids that don't struggle the opportunity to pursue multiple degrees and graduate degrees during their eligibility.

College sports is a full-time job now for athletes and this includes academics. There a lots of jokes about D1 athletes and academics, but most are out of touch with the reality of the current situation.

[bkeich]

I am glad your stepson had a good experience. It is great that some “kids” can use their athletic abilities to progress themselves. It is no small feat, you should be proud of him.

My opinion is also with. some experience. I am on the advisory board for a D1 school, and from what I have seen at this school the elite athletes “students” there are a running joke among the other students. They have their own dorms, special classes and 0% chance of failure or even bad grades. I am not alone in that theory. Certainly some are incredibly hard working and intelligent, but the majority are not getting a “real” college degree. For many it is almost impossible, as you pointed out their sport takes immense time. This is particularly true of Basketball, which goes over both semesters.

There are clear signs in my opinion. Look at guys that get 5th year eligibility that have graduated… they somehow manage to get into grad school in the school they are at every time… amazing. Most students apply for grad schools and normally change schools by necessity.

When you listen to these elite athletes you NEVER hear them speak about classes, majors, etc. That was not true 40 years ago, but now many of the elite athletes don’t even pretend that they are students. Obviously there are exceptions, but this is true of far too many.

When I went to college 2 of the guys I knew from HS went to Penn State (oddly enough both DT in football). Both of them played well as freshman, but failed out. They continued to play at lower division schools (and oddly enough Joe Paterno contacted both when they graduated to say how proud he was of them). THAT NEVER HAPPENS NOW. No player (that is good) fails out. That is not possible without Shenanigan’s.

Some people should fail out Graduation rates should not be 100%, that isn’t the point of college. That is just a sign that some are being given paper mache degrees.

[zambonir]

But "elite" athletes are such a small percentage of the players on any team, let alone in athletics overall. What you're describing is unfair to some non-athlete students certainly, in that they don't get the same level of support, nor the foot on the scale for financial aid or grad school. But the education the second-team running back gets still doesn't come at the expense of some normal student who didn't get in, just like the money that goes to the football program wasn't going to go to the library otherwise (unless Paterno gave it to them).

In the bigger picture (and we're way enough OT to move this into college sports obviously) it's unfortunate that the state of higher education - and government support for it - is such that it could not survive the loss of big-time sports. Even the political support relies on it to an unfortunate degree.

When I was teenager I used to love to read the list of all-time Penn State lettermen I watched as a kid. One of them, Terry Rakowsky, was a dentist (and still is, I pass his office on 611 sometimes, you might too). One of Mike Guman's kids is financial advisor (and Mike himself, who played in the NFL, still had to work for living too). And a whole lot of people in all sports do go into coaching or education (with coaching) or the sports business, for which you still need a degree.

[Docs]

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