2023 Phillies Regular Season Discussion

[andyb]

That is definitely odd. AL is a little stronger and both leagues seem top heavy. Padres and Mets are disappointments so far too and they are our competition. The plan of treading water until Bryce is back seems to have worked, and of course it is a much better plan if Bryce is out barely a month instead of two plus months.

[Aquapong]

Riley Pint recalled. I wonder if we’ll see him him tonight.

(As noted below, Rockies recalled him) -- edit PC, mod

[BaseballCat]

After seeing Pint for years in the South Atlantic league, I am surprised he has made it to the majors. I believe he quit at least once, but he has hung on and made it to the show. Very happy as he is a nice guy. Not quite a Drew Maggi story, but still surprising

[phillychuck]

Pint throws hard but really doesn't know where it's headed. Sort of describes a few of the Phils' prospects, too...

[zambonir]

I am really curious what they are going to do with Song. I suspect they are trying to setup the perfect 45 day periods for him to sit at the bottom of the roster, maybe pitch in 10 games, then try and sneak him back in to the DL.

Song could still be placed on the 60-day DL and not pitch at all this year; that would just make him subject to the full Rule 5 requirements for all of next season (i.e. on the major league roster all year, or for 90 days and otherwise injured).

The question is can they actually legitimately do it (based on both his actual physical status and the potential for a grievance), but also, would they even want to? He still wouldn't be easy to hide on a team with continued World Series aspirations next year, any more than Marte (or right now, Hoffman) can keep their jobs for very long.

They may legitimately be taking great care with him given his long layoff from the game, and can also make that argument to MLB if necessary. Or, he is quietly throwing a lot more than we might think.

It is bound to come to a head pretty soon: to even get his 90 days he would have to start his 30 days of minor league rehab by June 1 or so. And if they were able to get MLB to allow some sort of waiver (there was talk of a 14-day) to get him more time in the minors it would have to be even sooner. Don't see how the "two 45-day periods" would even work at this point.

He could still also be traded. Would have to be somewhat sooner than the deadline (well, to anyone other than the Red Sox but they wouldn't be offering the same value as other teams).

[BaseballCat]

This is true. He is a wild one

[bkeich]

I wonder if they had a plan with Song to have him take the roster spot of someone like Painter once his "innings for the year" limit was reached. Painter's injury could have messed that plan up.

My guess is they are holding Song back thinking that maybe someone will get hurt which will open up a roster spot they can "hide" him in. All depends if they think they can shuffle around enough and use him in low leverage spots for a few months to "acquire" him completely and then maybe option him to AAA next year and give him a chance to develop.

Hopefully they are really seeing something in him.

[Austinfan]

Would someone tell Bryce it's really not that easy.
I was figuring a month to get his timing back, not two games.

This may reflect how sophisticated training has gotten, between video analysis and pitching machines that can accurately mimic a wide range of pitches, you don't need to risk a top player in a minor league rehab anymore.

[andyb]

Just to clarify - Pint called up by the Rockies. Did a double take when I first read it.

AF will be happy because this is a clear path for some Phillies hitters to increase their BB rate.

[zambonir]

I can't say I see either of these things. If Song isn't ready to pitch as a low-leverage reliever he certainly wasn't going to be an adequate replacement for Painter (and it would have been pretty bad utilization if Painter had reached his innings limit by July 1).

And why would there have to be an injury? He's already on the 40. If they want to hide him in the majors and get him through the Rule 5 restrictions he could start pitching here tomorrow. Sure, they'd have to DFA Hoffman or Vasquez but that's already going to have to happen when Alvarado comes back.

If and when he's ready to pitch and they think they can trust him with some low-leverage outs more than they can trust a Hoffman or Marte or Ortiz, he'll come up. But they may not trust him. Either way, we'll know pretty soon. If he's not on the 26-man by July 1 or so he's either leaving (by one of several possible transactions) or going on the 60 for the rest of the year (if possible). And he's not going to be on the 26-man by July 4 if he doesn't start throwing in games fairly soon.

[bkox]

Would someone tell Bryce it's really not that easy.
I was figuring a month to get his timing back, not two games.

This may reflect how sophisticated training has gotten, between video analysis and pitching machines that can accurately mimic a wide range of pitches, you don't need to risk a top player in a minor league rehab anymore.

I think Matt Winkleman is on to something with these tweets regarding Bryce not needing rehab

The Phillies bringing minor leaguers to Harper, even on the road, so he could come back quicker is absolutely incredible, and I really don’t know how many orgs would do that.

— Matt Winkelman ( @Matt_Winkelman ) May 14, 2023

It isn’t even like they rushed him back either. They understood that his recovery meant he could hit before he could base run, so he couldn’t play in games, but they could give him a lot of things to hit,

— Matt Winkelman ( @Matt_Winkelman ) May 14, 2023

They also used it to check in on Jeff Hoffman to see if they wanted to add him to the roster. Just a totally different org than they were when the man in the booth or his successor was running things.

— Matt Winkelman ( @Matt_Winkelman ) May 14, 2023

[Austinfan]

I guess pitching to Harper would be a good test if a minor league pitcher is ready for the show!

[andyb]

Watching Dombrowski work is really an excellent chapter in corporate leadership. He hires smart people and listens to them and let's them do their job even if he is clearly in charge. A good leader sets the tone. He asks what the organization can do to achieve a goal, not how can we check all the traditional boxes we used to do in the past.

I think some organizations would have done that Harper rehab but clearly not all of them. The 1B experiment with Harper is a sign of this too. I think multi-position players have really shook up baseball these days. Before it was useful to have that versatility but everyone thought that playing multiple positions would hurt development at single positions (and even hurt offense). Really there has been no evidence of that and guys like Zobrist and Josh Harrison and even Kingery (though is experiment failed for other reasons) have pretty much shown it can be effective.

Where this gets back to Harper is that the GM likely determined that there is a window this year where we will need a 1B and luckily that window might start before Harper could safely make hard outfield throws anyway. The GM realized that even if Hall comes back, getting Harper out of DH and into the field helps the team more at 1B than the outfield. Bohm back at 3B creates a better offensive lineup. Harper anywhere in the field gets Schwarber out of LF much of the time. Sosa is free to help the defense at 5 different positions. It is just a win-win for the Phillies and the idea probably started because a GM was adult enough to not rely solely on convention and then he had enough stature to persuade his star player and manager it might be a good idea.

Dombrowski might not know much about analytics. Bob Iger might not know much about cartoons and superheroes. But they understand how to run an organization effectively that utilizes analytics or cartoons.

[Austinfan]

He also does a good job of adding talent on the margin at low cost.

Marsh cost O'Hoppe but Marsh wasn't a 32 year old win now veteran, he's a potential cornerstone starter

Sosa, Pache, Clemons, Cave, Harrison, Soto, Vasquez, fliers like Hoffman, Marte, Ortiz (keep an eye on Uelmen).
Buying time for the farm system to rebuild.

He spent money where needed, Kimbrel, Walker, Turner, Schram, but not crazy.
Phillies are up against the luxury tax, but have flexibility going forward.

[gmwannabe]

Tex Schram????

[zambonir]

Manager Rob Thomson said that reliever Nick Nelson got another hamstring injury on Saturday night in triple-A Lehigh Valley. He had to exit his start early. Nelson was on a rehab stint to recover from a hamstring injury he suffered in spring training. … Thomson said that Darick Hall (right thumb sprain) will start to take dry swings (swings without hitting a ball) on Monday and will throw out to 75 feet. ...

‘The boys are hungry’: The backstory behind José Alvarado’s ‘home run chickens.’

[Callison]

The Phils really like guys who can throw a ball through a brick wall - well said about the pitching prospects.

[andyb]

I think we are also getting better at figuring out the mechanics necessary for adding 2-4 mph to lots of pitchers (and not just young HS draftees).

[zambonir]

Matt Gelb: The Phillies will use Connor Brogdon as an... - The Athletic

[andyb]

I guess if this strategy gets more left-handed hitters in the lineup for Falter it is good. I just have never bought into the opener concept fully if the goal is to still get 5 innings out of the bulk pitcher. Does it matter if it is 1-5 or 2-6 or 3-7? This probably makes a 3-4 inning outing more likely for Falter.