2023 Phillies Post Season Discussion

[zambonir]

I just think "he didn't execute" is the same thing as something being "wrong." No reason to think he's hurt or mechanically broken. Anymore than we should think he simply failed to meet the moment.

Hayes wrote his whole column about how Thomson blew it by now using Seranthony there but I think that's a big simplistic.

[Lucky_Beagle]

It's hard to win with 3 hits.

Unless they are HR's
If the would have taken a few more pitches that were out of the strike zone might have also helped mixed around those few hits.

[Lucky_Beagle]

Yeah four relievers allowing two runs isn't exactly bad. Even Kimbrel isn't typically working with that slim a margin of error. And Seranthony also allowed one run in his last outing.

It will be interesting to see how Sanchez pitches and how scripted his hook is. Gelb predicts he'll face Carroll a second time and then be done.

"allowing 2 runs" may be accurate but doesn't tell the entire story as the game winning hit most likely would have scored another run plus all the runners on base may have scored if they finished the inning.

[Lucky_Beagle]

Speaking of Kerkering, I was hoping for some validation in what I saw were flat sliders that hung up in the zone. The only comments that I saw where from this Phillies rookie Orion Kerkering staying ‘ready for the next day’ after first rough outing in NLCS where they say Kerkering didn’t feel that anything was wrong, just that he didn’t execute in this given outing.

I'm hoping this is just Kerkering not willing to reveal what was going on, because otherwise, he'll be prone to these again. It was so obvious from seeing him pitch previously that the late movement on his slider wasn't there and he's going to need to locate that slider better than up in the zone to be an effective pitcher in MLB.

Are these things ever noticed in the bullpen while warm up? Does the pitcher actually try to throw his pitches like he would in the game? Has a bullpen coach ever called back to the bench and said this guy doens't have it today based upon his warm ups?

[zambonir]

well, that's true. But I would still say the bullpen was only the second-biggest failure last night.

[Callison]

Not a blown save, since he entered the game when it was tied.

oops. That level of disappointment is distracting.

quote="gmwannabe, post:382, topic:53631"]
they made a 5+ Era pitcher that they were facing the first time look like Cy young
[/quote]

Where the game was lost. I know the kid has talent, but the Phils looked worse than the As against him. No idea why. One of the worst days at the plate all year for the Phils - if not the worst, must be second to it. I kept on waiting for SOMETHING to happen. Coach Long on TV saying the Phils would catch up with him second time through the order. Nope. Never touched him.

I can't bear to rewatch any of that game, but I'm trying to remember how Kerkering lost it, and I'm thinking a couple of the hits off him were just so badly mis-hit, they fell. I'm all in with Big Rob on the decision to give him the shot. He'd been dominant until yesterday. The idea that he should have used Dominguez instead is 20/20 hindsight.

Don't even want to remember the AZ guy's name, but he's a some .230 hitter who came off the bench to get 2 huge hits.

Just one of those days when nothing goes right. Never saw that coming.

[andyb]

Anyone else think they should start Pache or Cave tonight instead of Rojas? Bullpen game so it is trickier, but Rojas is just not helping at the plate.

[BaseballCat]

A little bit of history about the NLCS managers I did not know.
https://www.milb.com/pensacola/news/former-lakeland-teammates-torey-lovullo-rob-thomson-meet-in-nlcs

[VoteForKalas]

I think his defense has helped us even with the misplay last night in the new park.

I'd stick with Rojas. He had a 2B in one of the games at home and hit one pretty deep last night. Sure, he is overmatched at the plate for the most part, but I'm not sure Pache would be much better and I know Cave's defensive issues could hurt us.

[zambonir]

I don't think Cave is especially bad in LF, I'm just not sure he's a better hitter than Rojas or Pache! If it was a RH SP who was likely to go 5-6 innings, maybe give him a whirl.

In a close game late they do have the option to burn all of them at once of course - hit Cave for Rojas against a RH pitcher and then put Pache in.

Ideally the offense shows back up and it doesn't matter. Or in a close game the defense matters more. We're also a little spoiled by both this line-up and the fact that NL line-ups now go nine deep (as well as the fact that our SS and C can both hit).

[andyb]

Cave is decent defensively in a corner. And Rojas can still be a defensive replacement.

[zambonir]

Yeah, he's fine defensively, and I get it, SSS, older player who has shown some hitting ability occasionally (and in AAA). But at the end of the day his OPS was 150 points lower than Rojas and he earned both his demotion and his loss of the 4th OF spot. Doesn't seem like he'd do any better in the playoff crucible.

Also it's a move that would say Thomson is worried that they lost that game, and/or is frustrated with Rojas's bat. He's not.

And you're also downgrading CF with Marsh.

[andyb]

But at the end of the day his OPS was 150 points lower than Rojas

But you know how ridiculous a small sample size that stat is. Add in playoffs and Rojas now has a 668 OPS and is trending downward. He basically got lucky the first time around the league and what is happening now is what should have been anticipated.

I think it is less than 50-50 he is the starting CF next season. He needs at least a half season in AAA before he is ready, if not more. Reading is an offensively favorable AA environment. He did fine there, but he is just not a good enough offensive talent to make that double jump.

A manager's job is to win and both Cave and Pache are much better than Rojas at the plate now. Doesn't mean they are that good, but they are what we have and Rojas is simply not good at the moment.

[BaseballCat]

For now with the massive outfield at Chase Field, we are better off with Rojas in center. Yes his batting is frustrating, but I still think it is best. Just my opinion

[Aquapong]

Pavin Smith. He was a 1st rounder talked up because of his hit tool iirc.

[Aquapong]

Pache should be starting. Especially with this seemingly being a bp type game for the Diamondbacks. Rojas is just in between right now…swinging under high heat and over breaking stuff. He’s not on anything. He’s not driving or lifting the ball. Pache is a good CF himself. We can put Rojas in CF later and bump Pache to LF for Marsh later in the game or even have Cave bat a favorable matchup and then put in Rojas.

I hate to say it, but maybe Hoskins should take a spot if he’s able to if we get to the WS. Right now we really have no one off the bench that would strike any fear in a pitcher.

[Aquapong]

As far as Kerkering goes, we had to put him in a higher leverage situation eventually. They have him depending so heavily on his sweeper but he’s got a 98 mph fastball. In my time watching him, he seems to get a lot of swings and misses off the arm side of the plate. But in MLB he’s going to have to be able to command his fb or batters will just ignore the sweeper that starts in the outer half of the plate knowing it will end up off the plate.

Eta, I didn’t see his inning last night, but it sounds like his sweeper didn’t have much bite on it.

[zambonir]

Thomson's an "if ain't broke don't fix it" manager and it ain't broke. Maybe that will change, but hopefully not. I recognize Rojas's hitting is SSS but so is Pache's, and Cave's failure this season was a larger sample.

Given how little any of these guys are playing of course Hopkins should be added if he realistically can swing the bat. The way this series is going so far you could almost argue for the five bench players even. If all goes well tonight (and tomorrow) Walker and Lorenzen may not even pitch.

[MichaelJackSchmidt]

I was listening to an interview with Scott Franske on WIP Radio (where the hosts and callers are all panicking), and Franske said (I'll paraphrase): "The Phillies game was over late on Tuesday night at CBP, they likely didn't get home until 1 am. The next morning, they had to get on a bus and go to the airport. They flew to AZ and immediately went to Chase Field, where they took B/P. They were likely exhausted." Interestingly, some radio hosts and WIP callers think MLB players are robots instead of humans. I've even had arguments with people who insist that when a player signs a $300 million contract, he should always perform well. I explain that it doesn't matter how much you pay them; they are still human and will make many mistakes.

[Aquapong]

Yea I mean the pitching staff gave up 2 runs. If the offense shows up, we win that game easily. It’s only one game.