2021 Collective Bargaining Negotiations

zambonir 2021-12-10 22:27:46 UTC #101

This actually does make a lot of sense, though I'm sure the small-market teams would still gripe. But it would stop teams like the Cubs, Nats (and Phillies, not that they ever really did it) from mid-season tanks. Phils, as a team that tried but failed to make the playoffs this year, would have the #5 pick this time.

bkeich 2021-12-10 23:37:39 UTC #102

I honestly think that tanking in MLB is less of a problem than in NFL or NBA because the “reward” in Badeball is further out. Most of the time the #1 pick is at least 2 years away from helping, and sometimes they are no help at all (E.g Moniak). In other sports the pick is often immediately a star, although some are busts, the return is much, much sooner.

andyb 2021-12-10 23:42:47 UTC #103

I think it is a dumb idea that would make the problem worse.

Say you have a 70-win quality team at the trade deadline. With this you may be drafting like 16th. If you keep competing the rest of the season you might rise to 12th or 13th in the draft. That is of zero value because you still have a bad team.

The only way to get better is to trade all your quality veterans for prospects so teams will still do that. And then the 70-win team does not get a high draft pick (like 5th overall). So it makes the competitive problem worse.

Somebody needs to tell reporters like Stark that their ideas are not that good. They have no idea what the problem is and they spend so much time on distracting issues that the owners give them that they do not focus on the larger problems (revenue sharing and salary floors of some sort).

Docs 2021-12-11 01:13:03 UTC #104

I thought tanking in baseball was about saving millions of dollars in payroll, not so much improving draft position. NFL and NBA have a real problem centered on draft position - a fun solution to that would be to make a rule that you have to trade your 1st round pick before the season starts or forfeit it. Its healthier fandom to root for another team to lose (thereby improving your draft position) than rooting for your own team to lose. And imagine how disappointing it would be swapping with the Cinderella team! A brand new thing to complain about!!

andyb 2021-12-11 05:01:45 UTC #105

To me tanking is about trading all your talent for prospects primarily. A small part of the gain is in draft position. Saving money is definitely part of it, but really the only way to get better is to trade for young talent and in baseball that means losing for a few years generally because it takes young talent time to mature.

All the "solutions" for tanking do not address the incentive to trade veterans for prospects. That is why some sort of salary floor coupled with more revenue sharing is really the only way to fix this. We can't force small markets to lose money. But we can setup rules so they have a shot at making money if they try to win.

bkox 2021-12-16 00:34:08 UTC #106

Sources: MLB, MLBPA unlikely to talk core economics until January. Meeting scheduled for tomorrow for non-core economics. https://t.co/jN4zXBdUVe
— Evan Drellich ( @EvanDrellich ) December 16, 2021

bkox 2021-12-29 17:19:40 UTC #107

MLB Owners' Net Worth
https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2021/12/mlb-owners-net-worth.html

andyb 2021-12-29 18:06:08 UTC #108

Middleton only 15th in net worth. Poverty....

schillingfan 2021-12-29 20:24:53 UTC #109

Yeah, but Middleton is just behind a cluster of billions between 3.5 and 4.0 such as the Red Sox. Pity the poor teams with owners worth less than a billion.

zambonir 2021-12-29 21:22:13 UTC #110

And what about the Bucks?

flyers19rw 2022-01-03 16:27:04 UTC #111

Scherzer did an excellent job of articulating the stance of the MLBPA. While reading his comments, it struck me how many of his points fit the Phillies situations. Especially the unwillingness to cross the line on spending.
I don't believe that this stoppage will end soon. Ownership seems to have the misinformed concept that they can break down the union. What they may manage to do instead is break down the weakening fan support for the game. After the last two seasons, many phans have found that they can get through the summer rather well without the game.

andyb 2022-01-06 18:16:56 UTC #112

Pretty good summary of where we are with a proposed solution toward the end:

Raise minimum salaries to around $650,000 -- a 14% bump
Add a performance bonus pool for pre-arbitration players
Implement the universal designated hitter
Expand the postseason from 10 to 14 teams
Remove indirect draft-pick compensation for free agents
Make significant changes to the draft to disincentivize tanking and reward small markets
Raise the CBT threshold into the $230 million-plus range and remove other restraints, including nonmonetary and recidivism penalties

I am not super happy with the 14-team playoff (please keep it to 12 at least), but if that extra money greases the wheels then I guess it is the price to be paid. The performance pool for pre-arbitration players seems a creative solution. Make each team kick in $5-$10 for a performance pool (it would count towards the luxury tax threshold) then distribute that money to year 1-3 players. CBT threshold starting at $230 million and rising to $250 million is really where it needs to be given the decrease in salaries we are seeing.

I like this solution more than anything I have seen from Rosenthal and Stark at the Athletic where they keep focusing on the draft and tanking too much.

bkeich 2022-01-06 21:42:15 UTC #113

I like it Andy, but I think it is too pro-player to get approved. Only real Owner item you have is the increased playoffs. I think you have to throw in one thing for the Owners to “get”. I would say getting rid of the Super-Two system that never really made much sense to me either. 3 years pre-arb, 3 years arb, much cleaner. I think you could create a system for Super Two’s based on performance maybe, but the current system just seems wedged in. Say 20 players from each 2 year class can get arbitration and base it on the same system as the performance bonus.

I think they also need to increase the 40 man to 42. Adding one to the 25 man (making a 26) made the reserved players smaller. Maybe even add a 3-5 player bullpen Taxi Squad that could float between the Majors and Minors freely by the teams choice without having to be run through waivers (unless they are removed from the 3-5 man bullpen taxi group). Pay the players in this Taxi Squad as Major League players while they are in the Taxi Squad.

andyb 2022-01-06 23:45:22 UTC #114

Retaining the current structure is a pretty big get for the owners. Remember salaries are now at 2017 levels. The bonus pool for pre-arbitration players does avoid the need for earlier arbitration. And frankly the player's proposal of free agency of 6 years OR 5 years/age 29.5 would affect maybe 10-20 players a year and the best get locked up early anyway, so it is really not a big ask.

Then the expanded playoffs and no salary floor are other gets for the owners.

Agree on the 42-man roster. I might even make it larger (your taxi squad idea). As long as the 3 years of options remain the same it is hard to see how much it would abuse players. The NFL saw that this year with relaxed injured reserve and larger practice squads. Larger rosters are needed and more players making the minimum (like $150K for 40-man players) is not going to change much as long as it counts towards the CBT limit.

The players need more wins than the owners here because the owners dramatically won the last round.

bkox 2022-01-07 20:08:40 UTC #115

More bargaining sessions are coming. Movement, though? “Nothing happens until the very last minute. It’s a very primitive mentality that people feel the other side is not going to give its best offer until they are looking down the barrel of what’s ahead." https://t.co/ddJBqO4Ja1
— Evan Drellich ( @EvanDrellich ) January 7, 2022

bkox 2022-01-11 16:22:24 UTC #116

Major League Baseball and the MLB Players Association plan to hold a bargaining session Thursday, sources tell ESPN. MLB is expected to make a core-economics proposal at the session, which would be the first between the sides since the league locked out the players on Dec. 2.
— Jeff Passan ( @JeffPassan ) January 11, 2022

andyb 2022-01-11 17:33:28 UTC #117

Here is the longer article. I guess it is good there is a new MLB proposal. It does seem the players have offered a bit more of what the owners want than the owners have offered the players. Expanded playoffs will generate much more revenue than tiny increases in minimum salary and the luxury tax threshold will cost them. Hopefully the MLB proposal has more significant movement though I doubt it.

This really looks like a mid-March settlement and rushed Spring Training at the earliest.

Philsmania 2022-01-11 20:25:58 UTC #118

I would be surprised if ST starts on time but I suspect it will be resolved before scheduled Opening Day.

I didn't get my Phillies calendar that they send to season ticket holders again. I wonder if they think the schedule may be changed if the start of the season is delayed or the season is shortened.

andyb 2022-01-13 23:33:14 UTC #119

MLB offers very little as expected. This could go on a long time.

zambonir 2022-01-20 07:24:45 UTC #120

Rosenthal says that "Fans will gladly turn to other leagues and outlets if what was once a $10 billion industry cannot get out if its own way." but what does that really mean? They're going to watch more of the NBA playoffs? Kids are going to spend more time gaming? That happens anyway.