2021 Collective Bargaining Negotiations

HopeSpringsEternal 2022-03-06 23:43:42 UTC #301

The news of today's (Sun, Mar 6) negotiations between MLB and MLBPA is not very positive. The union did toss a few bones the owners way, but they did not back off much from their original proposals, most importantly, still standing firm on their previous CBT proposed thresholds. One unique suggestion from the players is their proposal to consider "ghost wins" (i.e., a team starts off with a 1-0 record) if they agree to expand the playoffs further to 14 teams (from 12, which is already an increase). The owners scoffed at that. My guess is we won't be seeing any regular season games in April at this point. I also think if you asked the two sides what color the sky is, they wouldn't agree on that either.

zambonir 2022-03-07 00:04:13 UTC #302

I'm having trouble caring about the playoff proposals aspect of this from either side, though I realize the players' want these things to better reward the best teams. Teams that have a reason to chase the best possible playoff seed are the teams that will spend money. We already saw what it is like when it is too easy to make the playoffs, the Phillies did very little in 2020 (and then still couldn't even make it!).

andyb 2022-03-07 00:20:21 UTC #303

It is probably a good idea for these playoffs with so little given to the division winners that do not get a bye, but I am actually doubting it will happen. The only reason these stupid playoff rounds are being added is money and ghost wins don't bring in any money.

I really hope they back off the 14. Just too little incentive to make your team better in the regular season. 12 will be fine when they go back to 4 divisions when they expand by 2 teams.

nycphils 2022-03-07 01:10:10 UTC #304

The owners have the players by the you know what. The players are missing paychecks already for the regular season, but most of the money is made by the owners later in the season and in the playoffs. That’s why there is a lockout in the first place - the owners learned their lesson in ‘94 - if you wait for the strike in August, you miss the playoff revenue. This way, that is a lot less likely.

However, that means that the owners are fully prepared to test the resolve of the players for at least a couple more months. Not saying that’s right or I like it, but that is the fact.

zambonir 2022-03-07 03:44:19 UTC #305

There's no question 30 owners can wait out their losses a lot more easily and for a lot longer than all the players. I agree they've got the leverage and you can see how much ground the players have already given up (and how little the owners want to).

But I'm not sure it's as simple as that. Local TV money and in-person revenue (including concessions and parking, though maybe not the latter for the Phillies) are not insignificant. Ditto the regular season national TV deals. ESPN's current $550 million annual deal is for 30 regular season games and the new wild card round, but the latter is only worth $100 million of that. The same goes for Fox and Turner.

The Angels - a team that reportedly is against raising the CBT despite being a high-payroll club - make $150 million a year from their local deal. The Phillies' deal averages around $100 million. That's as much if not more than they get from their 1/30th of the national deals.

bkox 2022-03-07 05:26:18 UTC #306

Players union agreed to allow MLB to ban shifts, implement a pitch clock and make bases larger in 2023, subject to those agreements fitting into a total deal. Union also rejected Robo umps for ‘22/‘23. MLB goal: to be able to streamline the process and add excitement ti the game.
— Jon Heyman ( @JonHeyman ) March 6, 2022

fish 2022-03-07 21:49:38 UTC #308

I don't get the hard sell on 14 playoff teams instead of just 12. If 12 teams is worth 85 million and 14 teams is worth 100 million, it's just another $500k per team in the owner's pockets. Nothing screams "I don't care about the integrity of the game" over watering down playoffs for another $500k.

andyb 2022-03-07 22:07:00 UTC #309

It probably would be twice as much money as that (the $85/$100 was only ESPN - no ticket sales, concessions, radio, merchandise, etc.) but I get your point. MLB just has no long term thinking of what destroying the integrity of the regular season would do to the sport's image overall. Short term gain vs long term good is not something they understand.

nycphils 2022-03-07 22:41:52 UTC #310

The extra playoff teams are (1) to enable lower spending while staying playoff competitive and then (2) extra revenue.

zambonir 2022-03-08 01:07:21 UTC #311

Exactly. This is more about the bottom 10 or even 15 payroll teams being able to sell playoff contention, even though they likely still have no chance at a World Series. But the way they see it it will also make the regular season more compelling, because fewer teams will white flag at the deadline, or be all but out of it by June.

andyb 2022-03-08 14:08:57 UTC #312

Another deadline today for the 162-game season (of course last week was not real). They do seem closer on the CBT. MLB at $228. Players start at $238 million. Biggest difference is the owners increase at less than 1% a year and the players 2%-3%. If the players give the owners the win on the starting amount and the players get a win on the yearly increase (which is still probably below the increase in revenues) then maybe we have a deal. It would be another win for the owners, but at least a smaller win than the last CBA.

bkeich 2022-03-08 14:38:38 UTC #313

If we get enough playoff teams maybe even the Phillies won’t “just miss” making the playoffs.

andyb 2022-03-08 14:51:19 UTC #314

I thought the draft lottery was made for the Phillies since we keep just missing the playoffs. DD's 8-year plan to rebuild the franchise is to keep missing the playoffs and then get lucky in the lottery.

andyb 2022-03-08 19:36:50 UTC #315

I guess we can put this here (though eventually it will go to international or even the draft thread). It looks like an international draft is seriously part of the CBA discussions and I am not sure the players will oppose it too much.

Initial proposals have 20 rounds and hard slots which look to be a small increase over the current top bonuses (note small and remember the international slots have been frozen the last 2 years). Picks could be traded apparently and there is talk of some bonus picks for drafting players outside of the traditional feeder countries (this seems misguided actually). Free agents could be signed after the draft though I assume it would be from the pool of players that declare for the draft and not some way to hide a player's status.

I guess there is good here in transparency. Bonuses also are not locked up when the players are 13 or 14. Of course everyone likely has the fear of unintended consequences. I am glad they are not merging this with the regular draft which would put international players at a disadvantage because they are usually younger. But I also kind of wish they gave teams a pool that equals their hard slot numbers and allowed teams to have varying strategies on how to spend their pools.

bkox 2022-03-09 05:12:30 UTC #316

andyb 2022-03-09 19:38:14 UTC #317

Seems they are actually getting pretty close to a deal now. MLB up to $230 million vs $238 million on the CBT. $40 vs $80 million on the bonus pool. Players want larger yearly increases, but again there is really not that much separating them now. International draft looks like a sweetener for the owners that the players are going to give them to get this done.

If an agreement is reached today, the tentative plan is for Opening Day to be April 6-7, with the regular season extended by three days. The other missed games from the week-long delay would be made up in doubleheaders during the season.
— Bob Nightengale ( @BNightengale ) March 9, 2022

Here is more detail on the state of play:

One thought is that they really have done almost nothing about service time manipulation. The band aid solutions by both the owners and players are inadequate. Both might incentivize teams to keep stars in the minors more than the 20 or so days they do now (the Kris Bryant exception) because a player that is up fewer games (i.e. only 80-100 games) is more likely to not be in the top 3 for rookie of the year or some WAR ranking.

They may be making the service time manipulation worse. They really need to go to a salary cap system that does not incentivize teams going lower on salary. And to age-based free agency in some way. Bain-daid solutions can be gamed and this will continue to be.

andyb 2022-03-09 21:11:32 UTC #318

Getting closer:

Source: MLBPA proposal today moved to $65 million on prearbitration pool and $232m, $235m, $240m, $245m, $250m on CBT thresholds over the deal.
— Evan Drellich ( @EvanDrellich ) March 9, 2022

Those should be numbers the owners can accept. Will the players accept an international draft?

HopeSpringsEternal 2022-03-09 21:31:25 UTC #319

I’m hearing a lot of negativity from the owners’ side on the latest MLBPA proposal. My optimism from last night is fading.

schillingfan 2022-03-09 22:34:52 UTC #320

This will be resolved once owners reach the point at which loss of regular season games will cost them as opposed to saving them money. I think it’s always been about “when.”

zambonir 2022-03-09 23:50:28 UTC #321

I don't know that an international draft is ultimately bad, but it's a pretty huge thing for the owners to throw in as a deal-closer when they've done so little to meet the players anywhere close to the middle on anything else. From a quid pro quo perspective if the international draft can be thrown on the table this late the players may as well go back to asking for higher minimum salaries or earlier free agency.