2020 Phillies Spring Training News, Notes & Discussion

LoneStarPhan 2020-07-02 18:17:46 UTC #502

Being on the ten day DL does not mean that the player has to quarantine for ten days. Once they have tested negative over the two tests on two days and are cleared, they should be able to be around others even if the ten days are not up. Didn't the players test positive last week? That would have started the quarantine/recovery even though they were not on the IL until this past Tuesday.

Even while quarantined, I would think a player could do numerous things to continue staying in shape and even throwing a bucket of balls against a wall would give the arm some conditioning work.

zambonir 2020-07-02 18:34:06 UTC #503

Quarantine is normally 14 days! The first tests were reported on the 23rd. Nothing do with the IL.

The IL move was backdated to Tuesday. I guess it is true that since they have access to daily testing, when they are clear, they're clear. On the other hand, until they've had their two negative tests they have also presumably not been allowed to leave Florida.

I don't imagine most of these guys have a backyard or wall. They are probably all in condos, apartments or hotel rooms, depending where their full-time homes are.

In any case, for Suarez specifically to go a week to 10 days without regular work and coaching would surely set him back, but since there might also be a 6 or 7-man rotation it may not matter in the end.

I also don't think they would have put these guys on the IL if they were expected to be ready quickly, because it's not like they needed to open up the roster space.

andyb 2020-07-02 18:36:42 UTC #504

It is just fair to think that any pitcher on the quarantine list will be shut down for a few days (72 hours?) and then have to pass a couple of tests to rejoin any formal practice.

We have 3 weeks till the start of the season theoretically. Missing 3 or 4 days would take someone out of the running to be able to pitch 3 or 4 innings most likely. I would not be shocked if we decide to start the season with 16 or 17 total pitchers. I think we do tandems for every starter though hopefully Nola and Wheeler and maybe Arrieta can get close to 5 innings the first time around. We'll skip Wheeler once or twice too in the early going.

Starters: Nola, Wheeler, Arrieta, Eflin, Velasquez
Tandems: Suarez, Pivetta, Irvin, Howard, De Los Santos or Liriano or Jones.

andyb 2020-07-02 18:39:59 UTC #505

I think they did the move to backdate it as far as they could. If a pitcher is not ready to start the season they might even consider a 45-man DL move because they will need to finesse roster spots when the active roster is at 30.

They probably won't do it, but for flexibility it was probably a good move to keep that option open.

el-pietro 2020-07-02 18:49:23 UTC #506

Where are the infected players currently? If they tested positive in Florida then they must still be down there right? Will the Phillies fly them North on Middletons jet, or will they have to travel commercial? If any of them had a false positive and flew commercially they could be infected "again" right?

zambonir 2020-07-02 19:29:09 UTC #507

Pretty sure you can replace COVID-IL players on the 40 (and thus the active roster if necessary) without having to make another move. Just seems pretty likely these four players will return long before those rosters are even an issue.

What it could do is allow them to bring four guys onto the 60-man who can then be removed from without being subject to release, if that's going to happen, but that would only be true if they were already at 60.

I assume the three players who were in Florida remain in Florida. NBC story said Kinger was not known to have been in Clearwater (but we did have one player test positive who was not there).

julio 2020-07-02 20:00:52 UTC #508

Yep. Section 6.1.8 of the 2020 Operations Manual:

Players on the COVID_19 Related IL will not count against a Club's Active List limit, Reserve List limit, or against the Club Player Pool limit.

Probably not. Again from Section 6.1.8:

In the event that a Club experiences a significant number of COVID-19 Related IL placements at the Alternate Training Site at any one time (i.e., three or more players), and the Club chooses to substitute those players from within the Club's organization, MLB reserves the right to allow that Club to remove those substitute players from the Club Player Pool without requiring a release.

This language indicates that, under the specified circumstances, players who are added to the Pool to replace players at the Alternate Training Site may (at MLB's discretion) subsequently be removed from the Pool without requiring a release. But there is no such stipulation regarding players on the Active List.

Now, the Phillies could, in theory, assign Kingery, Hunter, Neris, and Suarez to the "Alternate Training Site" (e.g., pretend they're not core players) to try to get them covered by the above language - but IMHO, that's what "in the discretion of MLB" is about... to quash obvious shenanigans.

We'll see how this plays out.

I assume that you all have completed your homework assignments and read the Operations Manual. There may be a virtual pop quiz at any time, without advance notice.

LoneStarPhan 2020-07-02 20:05:30 UTC #509

I read that Kingery had been working out in Arizona, but don't have a link to a source to confirm that information.

zambonir 2020-07-02 20:43:30 UTC #510

Ah. Well, it wasn't going to come to that this time anyway.

Though if the COVID-19 IL players don't count against the 60-man limit anyway, that you means you could also just bring in fungible players that you don't care about keeping, if you did need more bodies.

Kingery probably still lives in Arizona.

California_Dreamin 2020-07-02 21:18:42 UTC #511

Kingery, indeed, still lives in Arizona.

julio 2020-07-02 22:40:16 UTC #512

The Phillies placed today on the IL - Scott Kingery, Tommy Hunter, Hector Neris, & Ranger Suarez - were placed on the COVID-19 Injured List.

Players can be placed on the list if they test positive, show symptoms, or have contact with an infected person.
— Matt Breen ( @matt_breen ) July 2, 2020

zambonir 2020-07-02 23:56:13 UTC #513

This story implies that a 14-day quarantine is expected after a positive test. And then you still have to get cleared, and (especially if it was during the season) take a few days to get back into game shape).

Girardi said he agreed with Mets manager Luis Rojas, who told reporters that a player would need at least three weeks to recover following a positive test. If so, an in-season infection could take a player away for a third of a season.

“if you’re quarantined for 14 days, you’re probably not feeling great and you’re probably not going to be doing a lot of things in either your hotel room or your small apartment,” Girardi said.

“I guess you could put the mattress against the wall and throw [the ball] against the mattress, but you’re not going to be doing much. So it’s going to take time to get them back in baseball shape and that’s probably why his thinking was three weeks.”

I think Joe may be overestimating how poorly a young asymptomatic professional baseball player might be feeling. But they still couldn't work out, except maybe with some in-room home gym equipment.

tom81 2020-07-03 01:20:09 UTC #514

From Gelb,
“In the event that a Club experiences a significant number of COVID-19 Related IL placements at the Alternate Training Site at any one time (i.e., three or more players), and the Club chooses to substitute those players from within the Club’s organization, MLB reserves the right to allow that Club to remove those substitute players from the Club Player Pool without requiring a release.”

The club, according to sources, viewed this as a means for adding more catchers to their training camp roster without subjecting those catchers to a possible release later. The Phillies have not yet filled their entire 60-man player pool; it was at 54 as of Thursday, and only three of those were catchers. Once a player is added to the 60-man player pool, he can be removed only through a legitimate transaction — for example, a release or trade.

Unless he is replacing someone on the COVID-19 list.“

A window for Herrera

LoneStarPhan 2020-07-03 01:33:23 UTC #515

Just doesn't seem logical that if a player gets a positive test but has had no symptoms, and then tests negative a day or two later, he has to quarantine for 14 days. I would think no symptoms and two negative tests on different days would be enough to clear someone to return to action. I assume that a false positive test is possible and of course everyone testing positive who is recovered has had, I assume, negative tests.

Things are not looking all that great for getting even 60 games played if positive COVID cases start to come up like we saw when players were working at the various spring training facilites.

andyb 2020-07-03 02:13:20 UTC #516

We do need a couple more catchers that are ready to go, especially if a positive test probably means a player misses a minimum of three weeks. Marchan seems obvious as the internal solution since I think he'd be OK defensively. We just need another AAAA option or two.

zambonir 2020-07-03 02:17:14 UTC #517

I would agree that testing would seem to supersede quarantine... unless protocol is that you can't even go get another test you've completed the quarantine period...because you're quarantined. Also it may just take them 14 days to actually get a negative test. Being asymptomatic doesn't mean the virus clears faster.

I suspect nobody has recovered, it's just that the other three players aren't on the camp roster. Could have been minor leaguers, could have been Robertson. Hopefully it wasn't Seranthony but then again wouldn't we have heard he had surgery by now?

The catcher logic seems weird. After the season starts you've gotta have at least 1 catcher in the second camp, if not two (with two on the roster and a third on the expanded active roster or taxi squad).

julio 2020-07-03 02:40:15 UTC #518

The protocols are laid out in great detail in the MLB 2020 Operations Manual. Y'all can speculate about what those protocols are, or should be - or you could go read the manual.

zambonir 2020-07-03 02:52:46 UTC #519

And yet...

The Phillies never announced the four transactions. They did not expect the league to post the transactions on a public website, according to a source. The team’s front office did not inform the agents of the four players about the roster moves. Everything about this is uncharted ground. At least one of the players, according to two sources, could return to the active roster by this weekend.

LoneStarPhan 2020-07-03 04:56:33 UTC #520

Taking julio's advice, I just read the manual.

As far as I can tell, there is no mandatory period for isolation after a positive test but the player must obtain clearance to return to club restricted facilities. The clearance will involve negative tests on two days plus several other steps to gain final approval, and since the COVID list seems to be really a part of the ten day IL, I suspect anyone on the list will be out a minimum of ten days.

A Covered Individual who tests positive for COVID-19 will not be allowed to travel (except as
authorized by Club medical staff and the Joint Committee), access any Club facility, or have direct
contact with any other Covered Individual or other Club staff (other than medical staff) unless and
until each of the following occurs: (i) the individual tests negative on two separate Confirmatory
Tests performed by SMRTL, taken at least 24 hours apart8
; (ii) the Covered Individual has been
afebrile for at least 72 hours without the use of any fever suppressant, and any respiratory
symptoms have improved, (as confirmed and documented by his or her treating physician or Club
medical staff); (iii) the Covered Individual completes at least one antibody test following the
positive diagnosis; (iv) at the discretion of the Team Physician, a cardiac evaluation (e.g., ECG
and ECHO) in accordance with published standards; (v) the Covered Individual’s Team Physician,
any treating physician caring for the Covered Individual, and the Joint Committee all conclude
that the individual no longer presents a risk of infection to others and is healthy enough to return
to his or her usual professional responsibilities, in accordance with CDC guidance; and (vi) any
local regulations or requirements are satisfied.

It probably would take ten days to get everything done and approved.

There are many things that will be different for the players. Showers are discouraged but not prohibited. No buffet. Prepackaged individual food required and players encouraged to take it with them. Club house time will be pretty foreign for most professional players. Players and umpires required to wash or sanitize hands after every half inning, and before and after any unavoidable contact with another player on the field.

Does that mean if a player calls time out and calls for hand sanitizer, he may be planning to steal a base? :

Things will work out but the games this season will come with considerable adjustments to the normal way things have been done.

phillychuck 2020-07-03 11:15:46 UTC #521

How do you know you're about to experience unavoidable contact on the field? Sanitizing before unavoidable contact is a very weird statement. "I think I'm about to turn a double-play and the runner's going to slide into me; I better go wash my hands" ?

Seriously strange wording.