2019 Phillies Season Discussion

[zambonir]

Well, that's a good point, though I don't think it would have changed the ultimate outcome. Bruce would have played three games in AAA or whatever and then Haseley would have gone down. They have not sent many position players out for rehab stints this year, though Bruce is the oldest (and longest-hurt) of them.

Certainly Jay Bruce is not going to play CF. Dickerson and Quinn will.

And while it's true that Haseley should probably be here over Rodriguez or Miller, then he'd only be getting 10 ABs a week, if that.

Bottom line, is a LF/CF group of Dickerson/Bruce/Quinn going to win us more games than Dickerson/Haseley/Quinn? Probably not. Is it a better offensive group? Probably.

[jimbomill]

Can anyone tell I am a bit perturbed about this move?

Rightfully so!
The kid is performing, but they send him down.
They got leadership and authority confused. Leadership rewards performance. That didn't happen here. Yes, they had the authority to send Haseley down, but in ANY organization, when you reward indifference and inadequate performance over hunger and performance, that casts a spell of mistrust among your team, be they assembly line workers or a MLB team.

[LoneStarPhan]

Haseley has been the one bright spot for Phillies’ Phans the past week or so.

Clearly this is a move based on having options, not merit. It can’t build respect and confidence in leadership.

I’m trying to not be more negative than the situation merits, but it is hard to be optimistic when it seems like we see something daily that is upsetting and depressing.

[DurhamBull]

Well, that's a good point, though I don't think it would have changed the ultimate outcome. Bruce would have played three games in AAA or whatever and then Haseley would have gone down. They have not sent many position players out for rehab stints this year, though Bruce is the oldest (and longest-hurt) of them.

Yeah, that's what I'm thinking too. I would rather see Haseley out there than Bruce just because he's doing well and he's hopefully part of the future, but Bruce was going to be back in the majors at some point.

The ace in the hole that Rodriguez and Miller offer is that they can play the infield, where the Phils are rather thin. If one of the 2B/SS/3B has to leave the game, who is the backup? Harper/Bruce/Dickerson/Haseley can't help. I know some have touted Quinn as a potential SS, but he hasn't spent significant time at the position since A ball in 2014. He's probably the first emergency infielder, just like Velasquez is the first emergency LF, but I don't want to see either of them there to be honest. (Although Velasquez in LF was terrific!)

[LoneStarPhan]

Quinn played SS in several games in ST 2018, but then he got hurt and I don’t recall him playing short since.

IMO, the bench has been bad all season. Having only a four man bench is inadequate to begin with, and they don’t have a really good super sub since Kingery became a starter.

[flyers19rw]

Dickerson has no future with the Phillies. He’s a FA at the end of the season with a QO level that the Phillies won’t match nor should they. He wasn’t needed this season either. The OF could have been Hasely, Quinn and Harper until Bruce came back. Barring any huge trades, next season the OF should be McCutcheon, Hasely and Harper with Quinn and Bruce off of the bench. Treating Hasely the way that the PTB have here just makes no sense.

[zambonir]

I think we're just a little too in love with Haseley, as if he isn't fresh out of AA, wasn't already sent down once before (and also got injured), and isn't likely to hit a wall or slump during a 7-week period where the Phillies already can't afford to lose more games than they already are losing. Perhaps it is going to to turn out to be true that they made the same mistake as last year and should have stuck with what they already had, since the new people aren't huge upgrades. But Dickerson is our best option as a leadoff hitter and Bruce is our best option as a lefty power bat. Haseley is neither of those things. He's a CF, of course. What this probably really means, as we've already seen tonight, is that Kingery is going to keep moving around the field. If they're trying to make the playoffs the best team has Dickerson and Bruce and Haseley shouldn't rot on the bench for three weeks. If they're out of the playoff race in two weeks, very different story.

[Dirk41]

I believe it was on this board several years ago where there was the "Inevitable Phillies" bingo card.

Would love to see another with the guys this regime really values.

Jonathan Schoop needs to be on there.

[Austinfan]

Haseley was rushed to the majors due to injuries, he's better off playing every day in AAA ball in August, than 2-3 days a week in the Show. They need to play Quinn because they can't send him down but they need to know how he's developing to make decisions for next season.

I don't think Klentak will say this publicly, but unless they start scoring 6 runs a game, a team with a pitching staff dominated by scrubs (Smyly, Vargas, Nicasio, Parker, Morin) and struggling young pitchers (Suarez, Eflin, PIvetta), with Arrieta on a 80 pitch limit, has little chance of making the playoffs and even .500 ball will be a struggle.

This was an 85-90 win team before the injuries piled up, now they're probably an 80 win team.

[Lawman]

Even if you want to say you expect the pitching to struggle, I expect an offense powered by Segura-Harper-Hoskins-Realmuto-Kingery to be more consistent then it is.

[andyb]

Injuries have probably cost us 2-4 games max. Remember the rest of the league has injuries too. Ours are probably worse than average, but it is not like every other pitching staff has not had multiple pitchers go down.

They could have added better pitching at the deadline for cash. They chose not to. Let's not completely excuse this. There is a reason Parker and Morin were on the scrap heap. They are just not that good.

[Austinfan]

2-4 games reduces us to an 81-88 win range, not enough to justify trading serious assets.
And without trading serious assets we're talking maybe 1-2 wins if we could have obtained RP upgrades.

Klentak can't toss in the towel, not fair to the veterans on the team, but if they hit September well out of the wildcard I'd expect callups and a lot of kids playing, maybe even Bohm, and some young SPs getting auditions.

[julio]

but if they hit September well out of the wildcard I'd expect callups and a lot of kids playing, maybe even Bohm, and some young SPs getting auditions.

Not Bohm. No reason to put him on the 40-man roster in September - because he doesn't have to be there this winter. Put him on the roster, and you have one less slot available to protect somebody from the Rule 5 draft.

[andyb]

2-4 games reduces us to an 81-88 win range, not enough to justify trading serious assets.
And without trading serious assets we're talking maybe 1-2 wins if we could have obtained RP upgrades.

Well yeah. I am not saying that Klentak should have traded "serious assets". Nobody is really saying that as I recall. But adding a win or two with better relievers that could have been added for non top 30 prospects (like the A's added Jake Diekman) was eminently possible.

Klentak chose not to do more when he could have by trading non-prospects and assuming contracts. He chose to do this with Dickerson who is largely duplicative with Bruce.

It is not a game-changing set of mistakes, but Klentak spent cash on a player that was not really needed and then decided not to spend cash on the bullpen where we need it.

This is a mistake and he should be called on it even if the larger decision of not trading good prospects was correct. Why are you so resistant to calling out Klentak's mistakes? He has done a bunch of good things - and a bunch of moves that have not worked out including this last decision. It is a mixed record.

[andyb]

The Athletic basically calls out the Phillies for the Haseley demotion:

In demoting Adam Haseley, Phillies place bet on...

Sounds like Dickerson will play lots of CF against RHP. Somebody tell me again why we traded for Dickerson instead of bullpen help when the DIckerson move meant sending another LH bat to the minors who can actually play CF competently.

[allentown]

I agree that Haseley needs to play almost every day. He should be playing almost every day in Philly. This is best for him and best for the team. He improves are defense and had an OPS of .795 -- yes, it's SSS, but why send him down while the SSS results are so good. It's not like he's been intimidated by MLB pitching. The first 5 days should have been a no-brainer: Jay Bruce does rehab assignments in minors. After that? Might be another injury the way the Phillies are dropping this season, one of the AAAA guys may be slumping. No way to know if this particular dumb move was all Klentak or pushed by Kapler. Kaplter hasn't seemed to be a nurturer of young talent, as witness how he handled Crawford last year and continues not to give a position to Kingery. Haseley was one of this year's bright spots -- did well at all hos minor league spots this year, did well in Philly. Way to crap on a good story? Will this hurt Haseley's development? That's really impossible to say, but the Phillies remain too much of a 'until you've paid your dues' organization which sees vets, even AAAA vets, as either a security blanket 'they handle the part-time/PH role better' or objects for genuflection.

[zambonir]

It really is the second year in a row they seemed to just acquire people based on what was available cheap instead of what they might actually need, and also the second year in a row they've paid lip service to defense (claiming Kingery was better than Crawford at SS, refusing to play Williams in CF) before just giving up on it (acquiring Cabrera last year, playing Cutch and now Dickerson in CF). Also they pay lip service to versatility but keep adding guys whose only true position is LF.

Not sure any reliever, prorated for two months, adds even 1/4 of a win though.

Offense has been the big flaw lately though, at least getting Bruce back and adding Dickerson does give you a respectable 1-8. If they do anything with it.

The thing that Athletic article doesn't really address is, just how important is to keep both Miller and Rodriguez on this team? Even if you lost one on waivers and another got hurt, you could always call up Gosselin (or Franco which would free up Kingery again).

Also weird they have Logan Morrison. He wouldn't be able to replace Brad Miller either.

[andyb]

I think they added Logan Morrison because the analytics said he was a good value (for nothing) and he is the type of patient power hitter they love. They did not really care that there is nowhere to play him. It is like they spend time accumulating parts they like even if they are not parts they need.

Pirela seems a more useful part, though not sure he is better than Miller or Rodriguez. He does give them insurance I guess if they lose one of them on an outright assignment.

I keep coming back to Dickerson and asking why? They had to know they were dissatisfied with Franco when they did the Dickerson move also. If you know that keeping Quinn might force a Haseley roster move, then why wouldn't you get a right-handed bat to replace Franco on the roster and complement Bruce as a platoon partner. There had to have been somebody better than Sean Rodriguez out there.

It is like they had blinders on and could not think 2 or 3 moves ahead. And it would be nice to have Haseley on defense this weekend in the biggest outfield in the league, even if that meant playing both Haseley and Quinn at times.

[Austinfan]

Morrison is a no-brainer, you stash him, in case of injury break glass, otherwise you release if he asks to leave.

Miller and Rodriquez are bench players who have more value than Haseley off the bench if Kingery is playing 3B full-time. Some of these moves were dictated by players, if Franco had a .750+ OPS the last few months then Kingery is the supersub and an OF has more value off the bench (b/c you can move Kingery around).

Dickerson is a better hitter than Haseley or Quinn, so you'd be playing both of them part-time for limited minutes as long as you think you're in contention. And Bruce brings LH power that this team lacks outside of Harper.

These moves are about having Haseley play full-time in AAA instead of glued to the bench as long as the team is contending, come September if they fall 5 games off the wildcard Haseley and Quinn will probably play most of the games down the stretch unless they plan to resign Dickerson (hard to convince him to stay if you bench him).

[zambonir]

There's no place for Dickerson to play next year unless they intend to trade Bruce.

I forgot about Pirela. All the more reason to be willing to lose Rodriguez on waivers. But I think that one is on Gabe, Rodriguez is his old Tampa buddy and has somehow acquired the patina of a David Bell locker room guy. (Also, very handsome.) He doesn't stink as a platoon player by any means, but when they cut Franco they said Kingery was going to be the 3B and Haseley the CF and that's not what happened.

I get that there's no harm in having Morrison, but if I were him I would have asked for my release the minute they acquired Dickerson. God forbid if Hoskins got hurt tomorrow you would probably bring back Franco or try Bruce or Dickerson there.