2018 Trade Deadline rumors/speculation

[tom81]

Robbie Grossman

I don’t see any value here, I would rather have Quinn play than trade for someone like him. If we went after a better player like Whit Merrifield I could understand but even then I probably would rather go with Quinn and maybe call up Halesly if he keeps hitting.

[zambonir]

I think a lot of controllable players are in the conversation still. As for the impact FA, sure, they still need one, but if you like Hernandez, Franco and Williams, where do you even put one besides SS? If Machado is not the guy, someone has to go. Trade Hernandez (or Kingery) for a bat, trade Williams for an older more expensive player if you don't think he's an all-star.

But meanwhile, if you want to win this season, crimping development (of Williams and Franco not just Kingery and Crawford) has to be part of the plan. Jones would upgrade the defense (which we know is terrible), bring experience, and upgrade the bench whether it was him or Williams on it. Plus in a true platoon Williams would get more of the ABs anyway.

One thing that ESPN article emphasized (the one Andy posted a while back) is that you should trade for who a guy has been his whole career, not who a guy has been this season. Obviously age has to be considered too but the argument was someone who's produced well over the past three years and is underperforming this year is likely to have positive regression, while someone with a hot first half who hasn't been as good overall (like Choo) is likely to have regression.

Haseley is not gonna double-jump on a short bench and tight roster (which would also start his service clock). It's great he is doing well but why would we expect him to come up to the majors and do better than Kingery or Cozens, both of whom were AA studs too?

[phillychuck]

One thing that ESPN article emphasized (the one Andy posted a while back) is that you should trade for who a guy has been his whole career, not who a guy has been this season.

You trade for a guy NOT based on his whole career, but his likely trajectory as indicated by the moving average of his career stats. Don't overemphasize the present, but the past is the past and is very unlikely to repeat. Adam Jones at 32 (and somehow an old 32) is never going to be a 5-WAR player again. Don't pay for a shadow of past glory.

[LoneStarPhan]

The MLBTR article that suggests trading for Jones would push Williams to the bench had just pointed out that Williams is out performing Jones this season in several well respected statistical indexes. If trading for Jones, keep that in mind. You are getting an older player who is not currently performing as well as Williams is.

[EDmuch]

I can't see them signing both Escobar and Jones. If they sign Escobar, both Kingery and Crwaford go to the bench along with Quinn and Knapp. That takes care of their 4 man bench. Add Jones and someone, Kingery, Crawford or Quinn is going back to AAA.

[zambonir]

Well, Quinn hasn't even been called up yet. And could break at any time. Crawford is still two weeks away. And they all come back on 9/1. Florimon could be back too but you hardly need him if you sign an IF and have both Crawford and Kingery to play SS.

And of course Adam Jones isn't going to be a 5.0 WAR player. But you gamble he'd show more in a better line-up and you're buying him very cheap (especially given his salary).

[Slinging_Southpaw]

The value, to me anyways, is having a player that has already been good in that back up role, that wouldn't be better off getting AB's in AAA. We have Altherr, Quinn and Cozens that can fit that role, but I feel they'd all be better off getting full-time AB's, because they have more upside.

[andyb]

I am sure they are looking at Jones for defense also (corner, not CF) where Williams is poor. If they are looking for a platoon bat he seems more expensive for that role than necessary.

[bigegypt0417]

Just another reason why the Phillies never had a chance to extend Machado and he'd just have been a rental.

This is your guess based on the idea we're still the same ownership that existed a decade ago. Manny Machado will sign where he's offered the most money. The Phillies are not at a disadvantage in that scenario.

You didn't want to trade for Machado and have settled on a decades old reason for it.

[California_Dreamin]

Bingo, Big E. After listening to Machado talk and observing him from closer range, I am convinced had the Phils acquired him they would have kept him. We already know they are unlikely to be outbid when it comes to money, of all the big market teams they have the most to spend.

We also know there is no non Phillie in baseball this organization loves more and he would have felt that immediately, both from the organization and the phans. As I have said previously, he could have owned Philadelphia.

I also believe he would have enjoyed being in a pennant race with guys his own age, guys like Hoskins, Kingery, Herrera, Nola and Alfaro. He talked at length recently about how important it was to him to "bond" with his teammates, and he will now have that opportunity in LA instead of Philadelphia.

I also believe that with MM, the Phils would have been the co-favorites with the Cubs to win the NL, he and they are both that good. I believe lightning in a bottle moments in sport occur very infrequently and when they do you must be bold. This was, to me, a lightning in a bottle moment, one that I am unsure will occur again.

It seemed to me that several posters I respect very much were making fun of my comments about LA, Kobe, and love MM has for him but if you live here you know its real. It can be intoxicating for an athlete as Lebron recently demonstrated by choosing the Lakers over the 76'ers. Talent wise, no comparison but he was dazzled by LA and came to the Lakers even though we now have learned that he was never promised another super star coming with him.

I disagree completely with those who feel MM would never have signed on with the Phils before testing free agency. I think he would have considered it and when the dust settled would have loved the Phillies and remained with the club long term.

Now? He can only appreciate this Phillie team from afar and look to help the Dodgers get to the World Series. If they do, it will be very difficult for him to leave when the Dodgers are growing to love him more every day [something they say quite often.]

To me this was a golden opportunity lost, one that they may not get again soon, if ever...a 26 year year old superstar acquired in mid season with a chance to possibly spend the next 5-10 years with the team, when said team is just starting to play meaningful games in a city that loves and supports winners.

[Patchmk88]

CD I have mixed feelings about your post. I, like you, wish we would have gone and gotten Manny, but I also think we tried really hard to get him. The difference is that the Os wanted the premium prospect they got in return to be a hitter - unfortunately we don’t have any premium prospect hitters.

Also your comparison to Lebron choosing LA and Machado potentially staying in LA comparing apples to oranges. On one hand you have the best player in the world in a more marketable sport compared to the best player at his position I a much less marketable sport. Lebron went to LA to build his brand (on and off the court) and because they have the most salary cap flexibility this year (they didn’t use it very well) and next year (when there will be good FAs again). LA gave him the best chance to win in the next few years and capitalize on his brand.

Machado in the other hand was traded to LA (did not choose to go there), may not be the most notable player on his team (he’s definitely notable but I would say Kershaw is still more popular), and plays a sport where brand outside of the game itself is very minimal. Now Machado May enjoy his 2 month span in LA and bond with his teammates and that may be an advantage for the Dodgers when he hits free agency. However his reason for picking the Dodgers will be very different than Lebron’s reason for picking the Lakers.

[allentown]

He wants to be in LA or NYC. And the other reasons are not decades old, they persist in the present with denigration of Latino players Hernandez and Herrera. Our announcers and the media portray them as lackadaisical space cadets.

[Florida_Sunshine]

Old news but for some reason, it is being ignored.............

As Hall of Famer Gary Payton told Black Sports Online’s Sheena Quick, James’ older son, LeBron Jr., has “committed” to the Sierra Canyon School—where Kenyon Martin and Scottie Pippen’s sons currently play—in the L.A. suburbs.

This had absolutely nothing to do with Philly or any other city. LeBron felt like he had honored his commitment to his hometown by bringing a title to Cleveland and now it was about where he and his family wanted to be.

Let's not change the facts to fit your argument.

[Florida_Sunshine]

AT, I agree with you but we sure do have a lot invested in latin players to have that attitude persist.

[California_Dreamin]

allentown...you don't know that, you are simply speculating about him wanting to be in LA or NY. He was very happy in Baltimore and talked about how comfortable he was with his teammates and the only organization he ever knew. He didn't decide he had to become a free agent, the Orioles made it clear they could no longer afford him, big difference.

You continue to beat this dead horse about Latins being mistreated in Philadelphia when there is little to no evidence that this still occurs. Middleton/McPhail/Klentak/Kapler have made a sea change in this team's personality and it is on display more every day. Herrera sure doesn't look or play like he is misunderstood or mistreated, and neither do Alfaro, Hernandez, Rios, Ramos, Valentin, Dominquez...need I go on?

Machado would have loved this group, this team and this city. It was a win-win situation in my mind...either the Phils do win out the NL and he loves it or they go down gamely trying with young guys who were not even expected to be there and have long term success ahead.

This was a golden opportunity lost, and it seems too many Phillies phans don't yet realize what we could have had. And, no I do not believe the Phils put their best foot forward, I think they tried but the Dodgers tried harder. He was there for the taking in a season where taking him could have catapulted this team to the World Series. He, and they, are that good.

[bigegypt0417]

He wants to be in LA or NYC. And the other reasons are not decades old, they persist in the present with denigration of Latino players Hernandez and Herrera. Our announcers and the media portray them as lackadaisical space cadets.

It will come down to money...it always comes down to money unless the difference is minimal.

I think if you try hard enough to move the goalposts all you want to find new and interesting ideas.

I mean...have the dodgers been kinder to Puig?

[California_Dreamin]

Big E..I agree it will come down to money and I think the Phils, Dodgers and perhaps the Yankees offers will all be similar. To me, the minimal difference you allude to [and I agree with you about this] will be comfort zone and familiarity. This is where the Phils lost out and the Dodgers won.

Why do I say this? Because MM has been saying it constantly since he was traded. He talks constantly about comfort zone with his teammates and how he simply wants to fit in. This is no ego driven star, I can understand why Phillie officials who know him value him so much. To me, this particular Phillie group, flawed but talented, young but confident, would have been a perfect match for MM.

Not saying he won't still come, but in my mind LA now has a leg up.

[bigegypt0417]

Big E..I agree it will come down to money and I think the Phils, Dodgers and perhaps the Yankees offers will all be similar. To me, the minimal difference you allude to [and I agree with you about this] will be comfort zone and familiarity. This is where the Phils lost out and the Dodgers won.

Just remember...pieces of our front office drafted MM and he knows them pretty well. I believe if it comes down to money that will be where we find out more about Middleton and his desire to make a splash.

[julio]

allentown...you don't know that, you are simply speculating about him wanting to be in LA or NY. He was very happy in Baltimore and talked about how comfortable he was with his teammates and the only organization he ever knew. He didn't decide he had to become a free agent, the Orioles made it clear they could no longer afford him, big difference.

Indeed, allentown is only speculating. But so is CD. CD has explicated, at length, his belief about the Machado situation. But let us be clear that this is CD's belief; it is not factual, nor knowable, and no amount of arguing about it over the next few years will convert it into fact.

[California_Dreamin]

I said this is what I believe. But I also have seen and heard MM's interviews and while I am perfectly willing to acknowledge he could well be saying what he believes is the correct thing to say, people who do know him well indicate he is being very genuine. Since he was traded to the Dodgers, and this is LA where everything is bigger than life, he has been the subject of intense scrutiny and conversation.

So while it is certainly conjecture on my part, its also based on what appears to be real evidence.