2018 Phillies Spring Training News/Notes/Discussion

[andyb]

I am more curious about whether it is a skill that can be taught. No idea when teams started to take it seriously either, though I doubt it goes much beyond the 5-10 years I guessed. The reason is all the pitchfx data was not available a long time ago. So while there were theories on pitch framing, not too much was done about it.

This Grantland article is from 2013 and talks about the first pitchfx cameras going in during the 2006 season and as I recall it took baseball a couple of years to deploy it everywhere. Maybe it is 10 years, but this is still kind of a new thing. I bet it is getting less effective also as umpires get graded against electronic strike zones internally.

My musing was more about the 14-year-old kid (yes the one in a rich suburban HS) that is now looking at video and an app that tries to teach that. I think it is very possible that pitch framing can be taught from a young age. Just less sure you can make meaningful improvements with a 25-year-old.

The Art of Pitch Framing

[julio]

Jesse Sanchez (JesseSanchezMLB)

Jon Heyman (JonHeyman)

Jon Heyman (JonHeyman)

Phillies To Sign Fernando Abad

[allentown]

A lefty reliever with not much of a L/R split whose IP have been in decline and only threw 44 for Boston last season. The huge split last season was that he was great on the road and awful in Boston, although obviously SSS.

[andyb]

Not sure I love his recent history. Seems a guy who has occasional good stretches without great control or a high K rate. Hopefully they are still talking to Watson though this might mean those talks fell through.

[phillychuck]

I'm actually not worried about relief pitching. We have good options in the high minors--it's unfortunate we have so many RH pitchers, but I'll take a good righty over an average LOOGY any day. Hope Abad catches on somewhere, but not necessarily in Philly.

[andyb]

Giants get Watson for a bargain - 2/7 including the buyout for a 3rd year option.

[California_Dreamin]

Ugggh...maybe I am looking far too deep into these Watson/Abad signings but here goes...once again the Phils failed to use their financial resources to acquire a player who was A] talented and B] there for the taking.

The Phils were competing with the Giants for Watson's services and it was well known that the Giants were up against the luxury tax whereas the Phils could bring in Machado AND Harper right now and not get there. Yet the Giants creatively found a way to sign Watson and the Phils then settled for the scraps and signed Abad.

I also find it interesting that once again when given a choice of teams, Scott Boras turns his back on the Phillies and has his client sign with another team. Now is Watson the end all, be all. No. But I witnessed first hand his talents with the Dodgers down the stretch and he would immediately become the Phils best lefty out of the pen. Abad??? I doubt he makes the squad.

Maybe I am looking through too many rose colored glasses but it seems to me this Phillie team is not that far away...and its the Watson vs Abad acquisitions that might make the difference between a September that matters and a September that doesn't.

Watson was there to be had, the Phils had ALL the financial advantages, and failed to take advantage of them. I don't want them wasting their money but I also don't want them leaving money on the table. And I believe they did with Watson.

[julio]

Perhaps Watson simply preferred San Francisco to Philadelphia? It’s a pretty pathetic human being who is motivated by nothing but money

[California_Dreamin]

You rarely hire Scott Boras as your agent if money isn't the motivating factor.

[allentown]

Yes, that is an agent choice with 90+% predictive power on money being the number one objective.

Given the players' growing anger over their shrining share of the baseball revenue pot and this season's slow FA process, I think quite a few FAs have been motivated to elevate money in their priority list. It is not that they personally believe the money available beyond the second- or third-best offer will do so much to improve themselves as it has become a battle between owners' wallets and players' wallets and union solidarity is kicking in to an increased extent. At some point it becomes less financial than political. That said, I'm not at all convinced that for the $ Watson signed for that in a short baseball career he would elevate preferred location over $.

[zambonir]

As opposed to all those other agents who are more interested in having happy players who make less money? Boras runs a 100-person company, he gets a lot of attention as a personality but he's not all that different from CAA or anyone else at this point. If his client preferred playing in California or liked the Giants for whatever reason he's not going to tell him to sign with the Phillies just because he might get 15% of an extra three million.

Honestly I'd have been more concerned that such a signing would telegraph that the Phillies aren't seriously interested in a starting pitcher. Though that still might be true.

[julio]

This is all about "beliefs." You have no evidence. You believe what you want/need to believe.

I'm fine with that. I've got my beliefs, too.

That said, I find it... I don't know; disappointing?... that people choose to believe things without any real evidence, and then, on the basis of those beliefs, condemn others. You're unhappy with Klentak - because you "believe" that he did or did not do something you wanted him to do.

Watson was there to be had, the Phils had ALL the financial advantages, and failed to take advantage of them.

You simply do not - cannot - know that.

I'm not at all convinced that for the $ Watson signed for that in a short baseball career he would elevate preferred location over $.

I'm not convinced, either, allentown. I'm just not willing to assume that he's all about money, because assuming that would be convenient for me. It's called keeping an open mind. It's called trying not to see every development in terms of my own biases. That's all.

[tom81]

Ugggh...maybe I am looking far too deep into these Watson/Abad signings but here goes...once again the Phils failed to use their financial resources to acquire a player who was A] talented and B] there for the taking.

But is Watson really better than Abad? He did have a nice run with LA this year but for the whole season put up a 3.38 ERA, 4.45 FIP, 1.38 WHIP, .9 WAR BBRef, .1 WAR Fangraphs. Abad put up 3.30 ERA, 3.68 FIP, 1.237 WHIP, .5 WAR BBRef, .3 WAR Fangraphs.

They were looking for a second lefty out of the pen in an 8 man pen. I don't really think the decision to go with Abad on a non guaranteed contract was such a bad choice.

[andyb]

Watson is a little better than Abad. Certainly much more consistent in performance and much better control. FIP probably does not do him justice as he outpitches his FIP every single year (ERA better than FIP all 7 years). That means he consistently generates weak contact.

I don't think failing to get Watson is as important as CD does. We probably do need another decent LHP in the bullpen. There are other higher priorities of course (starting pitching) and Abad at least gives us a major league arm with some track record to look for at a low risk. Neither the Watson non-move or the Abad signing really bothers me. The team is looking for bullpen depth which is good. Probably a sign they know their starting pitching is weak and I imagine we will have 8 relievers for much of the season, using the 10-day DL and options to shuttle 10-12 arms back and forth.

[California_Dreamin]

andyb...its not the very importance of getting or not getting Watson that irritated me, its the message that I see as being sent behind it that bugged me. The Phillies wanted Watson, and were competing with the Giants for his services. This was reported on MLBrumors and in a few baseball sites.

Watson signed for what seems to me a paltry amount ...2 years and an option year for 7 million dollars, the Giants basically paying 2.3 million a year for a pretty solid lefty reliever. Clearly the Phils wanted a lefty reliever since they signed Abad before the ink was even dry on the Watson signing.

Yet they were seemingly outbid by the Giants on a 2 million dollar deal for a player they wanted. This to me is bad business. Now perhaps julio is correct and Watson preferred the Giants over money but I maintain that players who choose Scott Boras to represent them are always most interested in getting the most money since Boras is famous for not even allowing discounts for home grown players who like their living arrangements.

I guess this was more of a philosophical issue to me than a player issue. Getting Watson was not going to make or break their season. But this certainly seemed a move that a team with the Phillies financial resources should have been able to make.

And I also remain concerned that the Phils still seem unable to ever sign a Scott Boras free agent, regardless of who owns or operates the team.

[tom81]

Yet they were seemingly outbid by the Giants on a 2 million dollar deal for a player they wanted. This to me is bad business.

To me it is telling the FA players and agents that they established a value for a particular player and that they won't pay more than that value for that player. Instead they will look elsewhere to fill that need rather than overpay. I think this is good business decision in this case since the need isn't glaring and the alternative is not decidedly worse.

Send the message to Boras that we are serious on a short term deal only for Arrieta.

[allentown]

Not signing Watson is a nothingburger, but the need for a good SP is dire.

The top brass seem determined to stick to their theory of sign position player FAs and grow your own SPs. If they are going to be that stubborn in the face of changing facts, then it really was a SEVERE error to spend three primo first round picks in a row on OFs.

[Florida_Sunshine]

Perhaps Watson went to the Giants because of his relationship and recruitment by another Giant by the name of Mark Melancon.

It's in the press on the west coast.

[julio]

The Phillies wanted Watson, and were competing with the Giants for his services. This was reported on MLBrumors and in a few baseball sites.

How reliable is this information? It was "reported on MLB Rumors" - which means they cited a report they found somewhere; they don't do first-hand reporting. My guess, without doing a bunch of research here, is that the "few baseball sites" and MLBTR were probably all basing their "reporting" on the same source - that seems to be the norm now. How good was that source? Was it somebody speculating? Was is something leaked by an agent(Boras) - something that might or might not have had any basis in reality? That, too, is often the case.

I find it... illuminating... that we can, on the one hand, criticize Scott Boras for apparently "making up" rumors about clubs that have interest in his clients, to provoke other clubs to up their bids... and then, on the other hand, swallow a rumor that we want to be true, hook, line and sinker.

[zambonir]

To me it seems pretty clear that the Phillies weren't that interested. If they were, the money wouldn't have been an issue. When a rumor like that comes out it is either planted by the agent or it simply means the team may have inquired. It doesn't say they were dying to sign him, and clearly they weren't. And if he preferred the Giants for whatever reason and only an overpay would have changed mind...